Is the 1911 Still Relevant?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Since they were out of the box I would have sent them back to Springfield Armory. When I wanted affordable 1911 I chose Colt for simple reason they actually produce major components of the firearm not just assemble bunch of parts made by others.

I was playing IPSC a lot back then so I had the problems fixed when I customized the guns. (Improperly staked plunger tubes are a fairly common problem which is why Ruger did away with it).

As for Colt the rear slide pin for the adjustable sight on my Series 70 Gold Cup walked out and I had to replace it. Actually that is twice Colt gave me the shaft with expensive handguns.
 
This thread calls to mind that immortal quote sometimes attributed to Abraham Lincoln, also attributed to Mark Twain: "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt."

Of course, as a life-long fan of the 1911, I'm speaking to those with absolutely zero experience with this pistol who would otherwise continue to denigrate it and proclaim its irrelevancy.
 
I have a 1911, an old Kimber Super Match II that I bought in about 2002, and it had been on my local dealer of choice’s shelf for a year or two before that. I bought it to compete with in league matches, and won more than a few first place trophies with it.

It’s a good pistol for the most part, and I’ve enjoyed it. However, I haven’t shot it in years. With around 20K on it or more it needs some TLC, and that involves a skilled individual performing that work for $$$.

I’m primarily carrying and shooting a polymer framed 9mm HK VP9 these days.

As a duty pistol to be issued to non enthusiast end users the 1911 is totally and completely obsolete. Particularly when the reality of a budget for an agency is factored in; a good 1911 that is made for fighting, with good parts, hand fitting, tuning, and vetted magazines is going to be north of $2.5K for something you could take out of the box issue to a dude and expect it to run right 99% of the time for 99% of those using it. Unless you want to issue 1911’s made with the same clearances the “won two world wars” crowd always throws out. Probably not going to be very impressive mechanical accuracy...

That’s assuming your users will learn the weapon, and actually keep it reasonably clean and lubricated (which they won’t do). Then you have to train those monkeys how to use the pistol properly and utilize the safety, etc under stress. So add more $$$ for even more training.

On the flip side you could select any of a number of $500-$600 polymer frame striker fired pistols that also hold 2X or more ammo, that will still be more reliable than a good 1911.... even when the end user never cleans or lubricates it. Plus the magazines are cheap and they all work. Plus the manual of arms is simple compared to a 1911. Oh and all the parts will drop in if repairs are needed.

Since incompetent officers or soldiers can’t shoot a pistol to save their life anyway, qualification scores will be about the same; but at least the polymer pistol most likely gives the end user at least 2X more chances to solve their problem. The ones who can shoot might post a slightly higher score with a tuned up 1911, but they’ll probably appreciate the lighter pistol with more bullets in it that goes bang more dependably. Witness units that have access to 1911’s and maintain rigorous pistol marksmanship standards, not using 1911’s anymore.

If you’re a dedicated pistol shooter with some money for top notch gear and a willingness to maintain it a 1911 is still awesome. That population of shooters is fairly small, when put into the context of gun owners it is tiny.

With all of that said I’m still seriously considering a custom 2011 frame 9mm 5” bbl pistol. But I don’t mind maintaining a pistol, I mostly don’t shoot my 1911 because I don’t have much use for .45 ACP anymore thanks to how good modern 9mm duty ammo is. I just want to simplify my ammo buying and reloading chores.
 
It's pretty easy to see who loves the 1911 no matter what, and who doesn't no matter what, and both sides have used exaggeration, even some wild exaggeration, to demonstrate it.

They are relevant because they still work and a lot of people choose them. Some people will never like them, and that's understandable. The best choice for you is yours, the best choice for a department is usually money, the best gun can be defined so many ways that debate will never end.

It is nice to see a "The 1911 is not relevant" thread go this far without people screaming and cussing and telling others they're loco.
 
But my guns don’t see the frequency of use (daily) his do...not sure that makes a difference or not.

Or you do the recommended maintenance? They said they replace RSA monthly with unknown round counts.

I'd almost bet the broken front recoil lug was started by a drop at one time. When I mentioned I dropped a slide and ruined it..It bent the frame rail and the same lug. That was just off my kitchen table...
 
It is nice to see a "The 1911 is not relevant" thread go this far without people screaming and cussing and telling others they're loco.

I guess I get the fault or credit depending on how you look at it.

As I stated the first pistol I ever carried was a LW Commander so I'm not totally unfamiliar with the design. Just had that Kimber CDP II Compact sitting in the safe and was thinking of getting it out and carrying it. Still haven't made up my mind but I'm at least going to get it out and shoot it.
 
My carry gun is a ria 1911 with some wilson combat stuff in it. As long as your gun is reliable and you are proficient with it i dont care if its an old pirate pistol it will do its job. I dont reccomend carrying a black powder pirate pistol unless you use the ensuing smoke cloud to ninja vanish lol
 
Last edited by a moderator:
My carry gun is a ria 1911 with some wilson combat stuff in it. As long as your gun is reliable and you are proficient with it i dont care if its an old pirate pistol it will do its job. I dont reccomend carrying a black powder pirate pistol unless you use the ensuing smoke cloud to ninja vanish lol

I do think the DA Revolver and the SA Pistol made the SA Revolver pretty much irrelevant in Military, Police and Self Defense applications by early in the 20th Century. It has to be used to be relevant.
 
I do think the DA Revolver and the SA Pistol made the SA Revolver pretty much irrelevant in Military, Police and Self Defense applications by early in the 20th Century. It has to be used to be relevant.

On the revolver portion of this forum, and several others I frequent, there are folks carrying single action revolvers around the farm or ranch, and occasionally even concealed. One contributor here on THR wears a SA revolver every day. A while back there was a news story about an old retired guy (I can say that since I are one) who stopped an armed robbery in a fast food joint down in Florida with his 1875 Remington replica. In all those cases the single action revolver is "relevant". The 1911s see a lot more use than this so...

Dave
 
Is the 1911 relevant?.... this is a result of the iPhone mentality. Your _____ is two years old, there's something newer that is more powerful and does so much more (or so they say).

Guns aren't electronics. 10 yrs renders most electronic devices obsolete. 10 yrs for a gun doesn't scratch the surface. Handguns are devices that fire self-contained ammunition multiple times, in a package that you can easily carry. If you can get ammo easily for your gun, say at the nearest Walmart, and it works, then that gun is relevant. There will come a day when you will buy little batteries that power weapons that emit plasma bursts, and those likely won't fit into a 1911. At that point it becomes irrelevant. But I suspect at least one model will carry the dimensions and grip angle, and likely a grip safety.
 
Guess it depends how you define relevant.

As a service pistol, meant to be given out by the thousand to non-gun people who are going to carry it a lot, shoot it a little, and sure as hell never take care of it, the Glock is damn near ideal. It's completely replaced the 1911 (and literally everything else) for a reason. As a carry pistol, the 1911 will still work if it's what your comfortable with, but the lack of capacity makes it tough to call it optimal.

I can shoot even a bottom-barrel $400 1911 better than any striker pistol I've tried so far, so as a target or range pistol, I think the 1911 is still very relevant for reasons that have nothing to do with nostalgia. But as a duty pistol, its day has passed.
 
Last edited:
Another thing: What single-action automatic has made the 1911 obsolete? There are a lot of characteristics of the 1911 for which one could choose an alternative like polymer, double-stack, 9mm, etc., but one would be hard-pressed to claim that a DA/SA or striker-action trigger is in every case preferrable to a single-action. And if single-actions aren't entirely and categorically obsolete, then what single action has made the 1911 obsolete?
 
I have a 1911, an old Kimber Super Match II that I bought in about 2002...

That makes me feel old. A twenty or so year old M1911 is a mere youngster to me.:)

I bought my first M1911 in 1980, a new Colt Series 70 Government Model.

With a production life of over 100 years, I guess that will happen.
 
I still have my original Colt M1911 although the frame is mated to a 22 LR slide/barrel and the original slide is mated to a new frame and a 38/45 Clerke barrel.
 
Yes, the 1911 is still relevant.

I got a Springfield TRP in my duty holster, hanging next to me in the “sergeant’s office” as I type this.

I’ve competed with and carried a lot of guns. I carried Glocks for years. For a long time in the 1980s/1990s, Glock was the only reliable option. Glocks and 1911s have respective strengths and weaknesses. I’m much faster shooting competition with a Glock. Conversely, I’m much more accurate shooting competitions with my 1911s.

Ironically the time penalty of the 1911 is almost identical to the accuracy penalty of the Glock. They offset, and I finish the same against my usual competitors.

For duty carry though, in good conscience, I gotta go with the more accurate platform. I can risk getting outdrawn, but I can’t risk ventilating a friendly.
 

Attachments

  • E871A830-2990-462B-9E8E-359B188E2FFF.jpeg
    E871A830-2990-462B-9E8E-359B188E2FFF.jpeg
    105.4 KB · Views: 14
Sure, if you know how to shoot it and make it work. The capacity is lower than the typical polymer double stack 9mm and most 1911's are heavier than the typical polymer double stack 9mm.

On the other hand, most 1911's will have more capacity than a revolver, and are usually easier to reload than a revolver and many folks carry revolvers.


On the other hand, "carry rotations" in general seem like a bad idea to me, especially when you're mixing a gun with a manual safety and a bunch of other guns that don't have one.

Pick a gun and get good with it. If you have to carry something special for special concealment purposes, that's fine, but otherwise pick something and stick with it.
Great post! I would add that the relevance of the 1911 is also tied to the platform being intrinsically safe.
 
The only center fire pistols I own are 1911's. Relevant? For me, absolutely yes.
I started shooting 1911's in 1975 after I watched Steve McQueen in "The Getaway" & a great western called "The Wild Bunch". From the moment I laid my hands on one I took an immediate liking for it & I have always shot them very well. It remains that way today. .
 
I guess I am doubly irrelevant---only two platforms I shoot---S&W N frames and 1911s---played with others but in my opinion they all fell short---you could say I am pretty well
set in my ways.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top