And I Thought Perfecta Flash Holes Were Off-center?!

One must remember G.I. brass is designed to be used only once.
Not reloaded.

jaguarxk120 said:

One must remember G.I. brass is designed to be used only once.
Not reloaded.

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While that is true, offset firing pin holes make me wonder what other characteristics are being waivered. The old saying, where there is smoke, there is fire, is very true. Obvious visible defects, benign or not, portend problems on the production line.

Serious lack of quality control...

Or is there some sort of benefit to off center flash holes?

I don't know of any, does anyone else?

Mauser lover said:

Or is there some sort of benefit to off center flash holes?

I don't know of any, does anyone else?

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No.

Worst pistol brass I've seen with offset flash holes is Aguila but that Fiocchi rifle brass is by far worse.

We just had a thread on this a while back. The older Fiocchi brass seemed to be ok, The newer GFL brass is awful.
The GFL era seemed to start with the 3rd generation of the Fiocchi family taking over the family business.
GFL stands for Giuleo Fiocchi, Lecca. Giuleo Fiocchi was the founder of the business, and Lecca was the town in Itally where the business originated from.
These off center flash holes started with the GFL era of the Fiocchi business model.
Their 9mm GFL brass is just as bad as the 5.56 GFL brass.
I seperate it out when sorting brass now. I'm tired of breaking punch pins or punching holes in the center of the primer pocket because the flash hole is so far off that it's out of reach of the de-priming pin.
I don't use any Fiocchi ammo because of this.

Yep, I have some GFL .223 brass like that and I did mangle a pin....
Some of mine were worse than your bottom picture

I think G.F.L stands for good f..... luck

Or is there some sort of benefit to off center flash holes?

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Must be cheaper to make than if you try to put them in the center......

I use a lot of GFL brass in 38 Super and have had no issues with ammo or brass quality. But that 5.56 brass is criminal!

AAARRRGGGHHH.

This is not match ammo, it is military ammo designed to be minute of man accurate, go bang once and never seen again....that is it. It is not a "defect".

Slamfire said:

While that is true, offset firing pin holes make me wonder what other characteristics are being waivered.

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Mil spec ammunition has a lot of requirements that must be met. Here is 27 pages worth for M855.

http://everyspec.com/MIL-SPECS/MIL-SPECS-MIL-C/download.php?spec=MIL-C-63989C.037913.pdf

And 16 pages for M193

http://everyspec.com/MIL-SPECS/MIL-SPECS-MIL-C/download.php?spec=MIL-C-9963F.025766.pdf

Primer pocket concentricity isn’t something I noticed in either with a quick glance. I suppose they don’t care if it meets all of the requirements. May be intentionally absent to allow for Berdan primers that are obviously not centered either.

jmorris said:

Mil spec ammunition has a lot of requirements that must be met. Here is 27 pages worth for M855.

http://everyspec.com/MIL-SPECS/MIL-SPECS-MIL-C/download.php?spec=MIL-C-63989C.037913.pdf

And 16 pages for M193

http://everyspec.com/MIL-SPECS/MIL-SPECS-MIL-C/download.php?spec=MIL-C-9963F.025766.pdf

Primer pocket concentricity isn’t something I noticed in either with a quick glance. I suppose they don’t care if it meets all of the requirements. May be intentionally absent to allow for Berdan primers that are obviously not centered either.

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I know an ex DCMA inspector, and I asked questions. Things get wavered. The manufacturer makes the same arguments as posters here do. That does not affect function, it is not a flaw, the spec is too tight, the spec is unreasonable, etc, etc.

And if you think Government inspection means something, take a look at the Generic drug industry.

A recent book about this: Bottle of Lies: The Inside Story of the Generic Drug Boom
the back cover of the book says: Bottle of Lies exposes the deceit behind generic drug manufacturing—and the attendant risks for global health. Drawing on exclusive accounts from whistleblowers and regulators, as well as thousands of pages of confidential FDA documents, Eban reveals an industry where fraud is rampant, companies routinely falsify data, and executives circumvent almost every principle of safe manufacturing to minimize cost and maximize profit, confident in their ability to fool inspectors. Meanwhile, patients unwittingly consume medicine with unpredictable and dangerous effects

Drugs are something that people ingest, and if you research this further, thousands have died because of contaminated drugs. So, if the QC of something critical to human life is routinely ignored, how do you think profit maximizing firms are going to act with something like brass defects?

When you trip over something like this, this is a sign of an out of control production line. The rats come out at night, you will not see them, but you will see evidence they exist. Ergo, you have a rat problem.

This is not match ammo, it is military ammo designed to be minute of man accurate, go bang once and never seen again....that is it. It is not a "defect".

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OK, I can agree with that if the ammo is not intended to be reloadable. I suppose that since most ammo does not say it is reloadable it is not safe to assume it is.
We reloaders tend to assume that if it is brass cased and boxer primed it should be.
While I have not been reloading as long as a lot of people the only brass I have seen with this issue is GFL/Perfecta.
So it seems like lots of other companies manage to get the flash holes in the center (or close to the center)
These companies apparently feel it is worth the time/effort/$ to do it.

When you trip over something like this, this is a sign of an out of control production line. The rats come out at night, you will not see them, but you will see evidence they exist. Ergo, you have a rat problem.

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I agree.
I would think they know the flash holes are off center (unless they never even check) and it is acceptable to them.
If that is the case it makes me wonder what else is acceptable to them....

Seems the question or issue is.

Did the original load go bang? If so then the flash hole didn't matter.
The brass was de-primed. so it appears that no de priming pins where broken so the brass can be reprimed and used.
Would one want this brass for Match shooting? Probably not ,but is there any "scientific" proof that a off center hole changes the ignition of the round?

We do of course strive for "perfection" in all things

Rule3 said:

We do of course strive for "perfection" in all things

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Of course we do! We are handloaders!

Curiously, I have a batch of Perfecta that, for all intents and purposes, are.

And a hundred, bought of the same lot, that obviously are NOT of the same batch. Possibly worse than those above.
I wondered how some were not punched straight through the head. And why someone at the factory did not receive the same...

Very strange how it ends up sometimes. Evidently that was the moment they switched brass methods or suppliers.

While it was not sold to be reloaded its still pretty bad quality compared to other brands brands that were also not sold with the reloader in mind. Brands like WCC and LC come to mind. I've been called a brass snob before and at the risk of being called out again I'll say that I would put that junk in my scrap brass bucket. And I do! Brass is so plentiful right now that one should be able to build up a decent stock of good quality brass. If they can't center a flash hole I wonder what other measurements are sloppy too?

Evidently that was the moment they switched brass methods or suppliers.

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I think they have more than one company making their brass for them. I have picked up 9mm GFL nickel cases that the flash hole was as true as any brand and brass cases that were complete crap.