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Herco in 9mm?

H

Howa 9700

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Feb 10, 2021
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Found this in my stash a couple years ago. Obviously not new.....I'd guess at least 30 years old........but has never been opened. Would have been used back in the day for heavy waterfowl loads...but am not doing that today.

Was either going to dump it or burn it........then realized may have use for 9mm. With need to load a bunch to improve my skills as pistolaro, am thinking of giving it a whirl.

As near as I can tell, objections to Herco are large flake powder that does not meter well, plus large muzzle flash, but otherwise spits out a bullet with some authority?

OK to use? I'm thinking 5.0 grains to start and work up from there? Would be placed under 124 grain P. Delta JHP.

IMG_0900.jpg IMG_0901.jpg
 
Here are some loads from Speer Reloading Manual
9mm Luger - 125 gr. Speer JSP - Herco powder

start load - 5.2 grs. Herco @ 1000 fps

Maximum Load - 6.6 grs. Herco @ 1169 fps

My favorite load with Herco and the 125 gr. TC bullet is : 6.0 grs Herco @ 1085 fps .

Herco is a powder that works well in the 9mm Luger ... if you got it ... Use It !

I have one Speer Manual that shows a max load of 7.0 grs. @ 1251 fps but that was written before Speer had reliable pressure testing equipment ... the New Max is now ... 6.6 grs @ 1169 !

$11.29 SWEET !!! ... I sure do miss those days ... always leave the price tag on powder ... reliable way to date what era it came froom . I have a lb. of Alcan #5 - $3.00 ... I just enjoy looking at that price !
Gary
 
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Herco may be slower than Unique, but not by much. Checked burn rate charts from Hodgdon and Lyman and Herco was only off 4 slots in both. And ahead of Acc#5 and others in both. Acc #7, which shows up in almost every load data there is for 9mm is way down the list (slower).

And if large flakes are bad, that does not explain popularity of Unique.
 
Howa 9700 said:
Herco may be slower than Unique, but not by much. Checked burn rate charts from Hodgdon and Lyman and Herco was only off 4 slots in both. And ahead of Acc#5 and others in both. Acc #7, which shows up in almost every load data there is for 9mm is way down the list (slower).

And if large flakes are bad, that does not explain popularity of Unique.
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I don't know if you load 357 but it's been great for cast. 16949016106843181056410310793370.jpg
My load for Unique for that same bullet is 7.0 and Silhouette 8.4. It's real close to Unique.
 
A have dies for 357 Sig.......and 9mm......but for this use, just the 9mm.

Nobody has heartburn about it being so old? As long as still unopened? Was stored all that time in my dark, dry basement.
 
Howa 9700 said:
Herco in 9mm?

I'm thinking 5.0 grains to start and work up from there? Would be placed under 124 grain P. Delta JHP.
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Here's my load development with Herco in 9mm using various jacketed/plated/lead bullets referencing 2004 Alliant load data - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/9mm-and-herco-for-jacketed-lead-plated-bullets.745656/

Here's 2004 Alliant load data that is no longer available from Alliant servers - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?resources/2004-alliant-load-data.18/

Load data for 9mm is on page 42 and while there's no load for 124 gr JHP, there is load for 147 gr XTP at 1.140" OAL with max charge of 4.9 gr. So you may want to consider using 4.6/4.8 gr as your start charge.
 
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Howa 9700 said:
A have dies for 357 Sig.......and 9mm......but for this use, just the 9mm.

Nobody has heartburn about it being so old? As long as still unopened? Was stored all that time in my dark, dry basement.
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Absolutely none! It was funny to read your original post, because I was in the near exact situation about 5 years ago when I first started loading 9mm. I had 3 pounds of unopened Herco, in the very same containers. Those are kind of a pain BTW. The Herco was my dad's that he used for 1 1/4 oz lead waterfowl loads. The powder sat in his dark dry basement for 20 or more years.

I ended up liking 6.0 grains under an RMR 124 hollow point. It really fills the case and will be a compressed load. After shooting a thousand or so of those I decided I didn't like that much recoil in my 9mm, so I backed it down to 5.7 and still shot well.

I think you will end up liking it. I really did. Those 3 original pounds of Herco are long gone now, but I replaced them and still use Herco today.

If you load .357 or .44 Mag, I really like Herco for what I consider "medium heavy" loads in those cartridges.
 
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Howa 9700 said:
A have dies for 357 Sig.......and 9mm......but for this use, just the 9mm.

Nobody has heartburn about it being so old? As long as still unopened? Was stored all that time in my dark, dry basement.
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I have Herco at least 25 years older than that, works every bit as good as my 10 year +- year old Herco.
 
Howa 9700 said:
Found this in my stash a couple years ago. Obviously not new.....I'd guess at least 30 years old........but has never been opened. Would have been used back in the day for heavy waterfowl loads...but am not doing that today.

Was either going to dump it or burn it........then realized may have use for 9mm. With need to load a bunch to improve my skills as pistolaro, am thinking of giving it a whirl.

As near as I can tell, objections to Herco are large flake powder that does not meter well, plus large muzzle flash, but otherwise spits out a bullet with some authority?

OK to use? I'm thinking 5.0 grains to start and work up from there? Would be placed under 124 grain P. Delta JHP.

View attachment 1172897View attachment 1172898
Click to expand...
Really good for upper midrange .357Mag I never tried it in anything else.
 
Howa 9700 said:
Herco ... I'd guess at least 30 years old........but has never been opened. As near as I can tell, objections to Herco are large flake powder that does not meter well, plus large muzzle flash, but otherwise spits out a bullet with some authority?

OK to use?
Click to expand...
Do the Alliant powder test and if it passes, I would use it - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-and-discussions.778197/page-11#post-12480191

HOW TO CHECK SMOKELESS POWDER FOR DETERIORATION - Although modern smokeless powders contain stabilizers and are basically free from deterioration under proper storage conditions, safe practices require a recognition of the signs of deterioration and its possible effects.​
​
Deteriorating smokeless powders produce an acidic odor and may produce a reddish brown fume. (Don’t confuse this with common solvent odors such as alcohol, ether and acetone.) Powder deterioration can be checked by opening the cap on the container and smelling the contents. Powder undergoing deterioration has an irritating acidic odor.​

9mm load development I did with Herco was done with "New Old Stock" Herco bottle that was likely just as old, if not older. When I opened the bottle, no off/pungent odor - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/herco-in-9mm.923392/#post-12723157

index.php

PO2Hammer said:
Howa 9700 said:
I'm thinking 5.0 grains to start and work up from there? ... 124 grain P. Delta JHP.
Click to expand...
These guys test it in 9mm. http://www.natoreloading.com/herco/
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Nice.

They used Precision Delta 124 gr JHP loaded to 1.095" OAL and tested 5.2, 5.8 and 6.5 gr -
  • 9mm 124 gr PD JHP Herco 1.095" OAL 5.2 gr (1145 fps)
  • 9mm 124 gr PD JHP Herco 1.095" OAL 5.8 gr (1225 fps)
  • 9mm 124 gr PD JHP Herco 1.095" OAL 6.5 gr (1295 fps)
2004 Alliant load data lists 125 gr FMJ loaded to 1.140" OAL with max charge of 6.5 gr (1,180 fps) 32,700 PSI. So using 10% reduction would produce 5.8 gr start charge. With JHP bullet seated much deeper than FMJ, 5.2 gr start charge looks appropriate but not sure if I would go above 6.0 gr for JHP testing, especially if using shorter OAL.

But if you want to start at 5.0 gr for initial powder workup, especially if your OAL is on the shorter side, sounds good to me.

GeoDudeFlorida said:
Really good for upper midrange .357Mag I never tried it in anything else.
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Herco in 40S&W produced surprisingly accurate results and clean burning (I mean, inside the case clean burning). So if I can't find BE-86 or WSF for 40S&W, I would happily use Herco for 40S&W - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/40s-w-and-herco-for-lead-plated-bullets.743416/
 
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PO2Hammer said:
These guys test it in 9mm.
http://www.natoreloading.com/herco/
Click to expand...

As noted before, not sure who these guys are, but like their reviews, although if you look close, you can find some contradictions. Some of their stuff would benefit from some edits. But in 9mm alone they have reviews of something like 30 different powders.......and there must be at least a dozen or more used.....or could be used.... in 9mm that are not included.......which makes me think the only powder not used for 9mm in the first 40 or so on the burn chart is what gets sweeped up off the floor. It is a bizarre situation that is rare to find in the reloading world. Next closest I've encountered might be 308 Win and that isn't even close in range of powders used.

But also of note, nearly all of their tests use a mix of bullets of various weights, but all include the Precision Delta 124 gr JHP, but don't say which one. Version 1 or 2. My guess is Version 1, which appears to resemble the Hornady 124 gr XTP. Version 1 may or may not be an expanding JHP. Version 2 appears is NOT expanding. A target bullet only, but appears to resemble many 124 gr JHP bullets that are.......including the RMR 124 gr. nuke. But whatever the case, I have samples of both V1 and V2 coming so as to be able to duplicate some of their lower velocity, lower pressure loads. They seem to be pushing the envelope on what a guy can get away with as to top end, high velocity loads (+P & +P+), and I'm steering well clear of that for now.
 
Your Herco will work fine. A few months ago, I did the same thing as you are doing, but my powder was a 1980's container of Hercules Blue Dot that I've had for years. I used the Berry's 124 plated and tested loads @ 7.0,7.5 & 8.0 grains. All of the loads shot fine. I settled on the 7.5 gr. load.

There used to be a lot of loading data for the old Hercules / Alliant Red Dot ,Green Dot, Herco and Blue Dot powders, which were all originally intended for use in Shotguns. Those Shotgun powders were being pushed out the Pistol loading manuals for a bunch of newer powders specifically marketed for hand gun use. Unique has held on due to it's usability across many Pistol cartridges.

I just looked into a 1995 Hercules reloading data pamphlet and for a 124 FMJ in 9MM, it listed a maximum load of 6.5 Grs. of Herco.

Don't overthink this. Your pound of Herco will load you over 1000 rds. of 9MM ammo. do some testing and use it up.
 
A couple of things: Give the smell test. Take a spoon full or so outside and light it. It should burn smoothly, not any sputtering.
This is the internet, reference your manuals.
 
Just for reference, my Speer 1970 Loading Manual shows a loading for Herco in 9MM Parabellum using a 124 gr. JSP with a starting load @ 5.2 grs with a maximum of 7.0 grs. of Herco. Test Pistol was a S&W 39 4" barrel.

I have an 8oz. can of Alcan #7 I'm going to use up in 38 Special. Probably made in the early 1970's, looks like it was made yesterday. A few years ago, I finished up a can of Alcan #5 from the 1950's that my Dad used in some 12 Ga. loadings. I loaded it into .41 Magnum and 38 Special target loads. It also worked perfectly.
 
Well, that same 1970 Speer Manual also shows Alcan 7 in the 9MM with a 124 gr. JSP @ a starting load of 6.5 grs. and a maximum load of 7.5 grs. No reason you shouldn't use it, unless it went bad, but you can check it. If it still smells like a solvent and it's still gray, it's good. When powder goes bad you'll know it. It will turn an orange color , giving off orange dust and will smell like an acrid acid.

I've had a couple of #'s of powder over the years go bad and it easily noticeable.
 
Cracked open the Herco and it smelled good, like powder should, so proceeded to load some ladders.

5.0, 5.2, 5.4 and 5.6, using Precision Delta 124 gr jhp V1, seated to 1.080, which was where the seating stem was set to seat RMR 124 gr nukes to a COAL of 1.070. Rather than dick with the seating depth, left it alone so there is no adjustment going back and forth between the two. One less thing. At that seating depth, those bullets put the base bury to same seating depth as Hornady 124 gr XTP at near universal book COAL of 1.060, so may be able to borrow some load data from Hornady, which BTW, does include load data for Herco.

Also, as near as I could tell, at COAL of 1.080 for the PD 124 jhp V1 bullet, 5.0 grains is 100% case fill. Next steps were 104%, 108% and 112%, so compressed loads. If one of those works out OK, I've got a load to burn thru some components while learning to shoot better.

BTW, so a pound of powder loads 1,000 rounds? This is what 1,000 rounds looks like in the rough. Perspective..........

IMG_0915.jpg
 
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