.22 LR long-ish (long-er) range

Varminterror · Dec 29, 2023

Ru4real said:
IMO, shooting 22 LR past 100 is like shooting 223 past 600. You can do it, but the choice is dumber and dumber the further you go.

”I can hit a plate at 200 with a 22.”
Yea, maybe 20% of the time, is that really “success” ?

This is the kind of gatekeeping nonsense that 1) keeps new shooters from taking up the sport, and 2) eliminated my interest in this forum.

Poorly matched equipment in uneducated and inexperienced hands will yield poor results - but none of the above represents what is truly possible.

v8stang289 · Dec 29, 2023

As others have said, consistent ammo and an accurate rifle are a must when shooting 22lr at that distance.
CCI SV and Norma Tac-22(black box) have been the most accurate "budget" ammo in my rifles.
My CZ452 and Bergara BMR will usually shoot them ~.5" @ 50 yards if I do my part. My 513T with Redfield sights will too, but I can't see well enough to shoot it any further that that, lol.
We take the CZ and the Bergara out to 200 sometimes on an 8" plate. The Bergara has Target turrets and a 20moa base, 1 full revolution gets it close with most ammo. The CZ has regular turrets so we just holdover. Drop is ~3-4' IIRC

S&K Rifle Match and Wolf Match Target shoot very good for me as well, with Eley Match & Eley Tenex typically being the most accurate.

A lot of 22's are very ammo picky though. What works in one gun may not work in another, and variance lot to lot can make a big difference too.

I've never had any luck getting Mini-Mags to shoot with any real accuracy in my guns, but they may work well for others.

My 16yo shot this 5 shot group this afternoon with the CZ452 @ 50 yards with Norma Tac-22. Really good shooting ammo for the price

Walkalong · Dec 29, 2023

Mauser lover said:
My biggest thought is that you should not trust ballistic calculators like this without verification.

My buddy and I shoot our ammo out to 300 in 25 or 50 yard increments (depends on time/ammo) to verify/tweak the ballistic program inputs.

.22 LR is harder to tweak than our long range stuff.

Ru4real · Dec 29, 2023

Varminterror said:
This is the kind of gatekeeping nonsense that 1) keeps new shooters from taking up the sport, and 2) eliminated my interest in this forum.

Poorly matched equipment in uneducated and inexperienced hands will yield poor results - but none of the above represents what is truly possible.

Relax Rambo, like I said, what I posted was simply an opinion, which I then apologized for possibly derailing the thread.

In person, you wouldn’t have said what you said, so forgiveness goes both ways.

Nature Boy · Dec 29, 2023

I’ve seen what chasing the .22lr dragon has done to some of my shooting friends, enough so that I don’t even want to read this thread.

It’s a sickness and I already have enough addictions

OS/N · Dec 29, 2023

+1 for cci sv. Cost to accuracy.

Sk will do better but it is costly for the little bit of improvement in my rigs anyway.

When there is wind to fight the mini mags will sometimes stay together better at longer ranges. I usually pack it up when the wind gets up anyway.

When shooting long targets I usually just shoot enough to see where they land and adjust to the impact area center to set the scope for elevation and windage at that given range. I prefer indexing turrets though so it's easy to go back to the 25/50 yard zero. I haven't seen a scope yet that equals what it says the clicks mean enough to turn much more than a few MOA without getting out of wack. Indexed reticals seem to be better here but you do need to use it enough to memorize what they mean on your firearm with what ammo.

Another thing is paralex - a 22 scope may be set at 50 yrds and a c/f scope at 200 or adjustable but still not work well under 50 yrds. A correct height scope mount lets your eye fall in the center naturally and helps reduce retical displacement.

ms6852 · Dec 29, 2023

Range	Elevation	Elevation	Elevation	Windage	Windage	Windage	Time	Energy	Vel[x+y]
(yd)	(in)	(MOA)	(MIL)	(in)	(MOA)	(MIL)	(s)	(ft.lbf)	(ft/s)
- Sound Barrier (1116 fps) -
0	-1.50	0.00	0.00	0.08	0.00	0.00	0.00	102	1070
10	-0.53	4.94	1.44	0.14	1.29	0.38	0.03	98	1048
20	0.11	-0.53	-0.16	0.29	1.38	0.40	0.06	94	1028
30	0.42	-1.34	-0.39	0.54	1.72	0.50	0.09	91	1010
40	0.39	-0.93	-0.27	0.88	2.10	0.61	0.12	87	992
50	0.01	-0.01	0.00	1.32	2.50	0.73	0.15	85	976
60	-0.74	1.18	0.34	1.83	2.91	0.85	0.18	82	961
70	-1.87	2.54	0.74	2.43	3.31	0.96	0.21	80	947
80	-3.38	4.02	1.17	3.11	3.71	1.08	0.24	77	934
90	-5.29	5.60	1.63	3.87	4.10	1.19	0.27	75	921
100	-7.61	7.26	2.11	4.71	4.49	1.31	0.31	73	909
110	-10.35	8.97	2.61	5.63	4.88	1.42	0.34	71	897
120	-13.52	10.75	3.13	6.62	5.26	1.53	0.37	70	886
130	-17.14	12.58	3.66	7.68	5.64	1.64	0.41	68	875
140	-21.21	14.45	4.20	8.83	6.01	1.75	0.44	66	864
150	-25.75	16.38	4.76	10.04	6.39	1.86	0.48	65	854
160	-30.77	18.35	5.34	11.33	6.76	1.97	0.51	63	844
170	-36.27	20.36	5.92	12.69	7.12	2.07	0.55	62	834
180	-42.27	22.41	6.52	14.13	7.49	2.18	0.59	60	824
190	-48.78	24.50	7.13	15.64	7.85	2.28	0.62	59	815
200	-55.82	26.63	7.75	17.22	8.21	2.39	0.66	58	806
210	-63.39	28.81	8.38	18.87	8.58	2.49	0.70	56	797
220	-71.51	31.02	9.02	20.60	8.93	2.60	0.73	55	789
230	-80.19	33.27	9.68	22.39	9.29	2.70	0.77	54	780
240	-89.44	35.57	10.35	24.27	9.65	2.81	0.81	53	772
250	-99.27	37.90	11.02	26.21	10.01	2.91	0.85	52	764
260	-109.70	40.27	11.71	28.23	10.36	3.01	0.89	51	756
270	-120.73	42.68	12.42	30.32	10.72	3.12	0.93	50	748
280	-132.39	45.13	13.13	32.49	11.08	3.22	0.97	49	740
290	-144.68	47.62	13.85	34.73	11.43	3.33	1.01	48	732
300	-157.62	50.15	14.59	37.05	11.79	3.43	1.05	47	725

In my experience of shooting at 230 yards I found out that using high velocity rounds in 40 grains either CCI or Aguila shot more consistently where I could brake clays and their fragments. Now I did cheat at the beginning because I would put the targets on the side of the berm where I could see impacts and adjust my shooting from that.

In my range there is a constant swirling breeze that comes at you from all directions so it made it fun and challenging because that is a good way to learn how to read the wind. I found out that with subsonic rounds I would miss very close to the clay, a couple of inches at most by the time I got the rifle dialed in all directions of the compass or clock. I assume because the slower round gave the wind more time to affect its trajectory, whereas I had more hits with the higher velocity rounds. Just my observation and I am using a 10/22 rifle with a 20" barrel either the tac-sol barrel or the Kidd barrel. Both barrels performed better with the higher velocity rounds.

I also found out that my usual elevation adjustment from a 50 yard zero to 100 yards normally needed to be between 10 to 12 moa and from 100 yards to 200 and 230 between 26 to 30 moa of elevation adjustment. Was not much of a difference when I used my longer barrels on my 52C or my Remington 513T for MOA adjustment either, according to the Redfield sights.

The chart above is close to what I would get. But some one else may get different numbers.

silveroak · Dec 29, 2023

Chuck R. said:
Which mini-mag?

and I agree with someguy.. you're wasting your time and money trying to get mini-mags to shoot at extended distances.

40 grain round-nose copper-plated

I hear you all on it not being optimal. It's just something that I run for semis as an all-around choice.

silveroak · Dec 29, 2023

ms6852 said:
Range Elevation Elevation Elevation Windage Windage Windage Time Energy Vel[x+y]
(yd) (in) (MOA) (MIL) (in) (MOA) (MIL) (s) (ft.lbf) (ft/s)
- Sound Barrier (1116 fps) -
0 -1.50 0.00 0.00 0.08 0.00 0.00 0.00 102 1070
10 -0.53 4.94 1.44 0.14 1.29 0.38 0.03 98 1048
20 0.11 -0.53 -0.16 0.29 1.38 0.40 0.06 94 1028
30 0.42 -1.34 -0.39 0.54 1.72 0.50 0.09 91 1010
40 0.39 -0.93 -0.27 0.88 2.10 0.61 0.12 87 992
50 0.01 -0.01 0.00 1.32 2.50 0.73 0.15 85 976
60 -0.74 1.18 0.34 1.83 2.91 0.85 0.18 82 961
70 -1.87 2.54 0.74 2.43 3.31 0.96 0.21 80 947
80 -3.38 4.02 1.17 3.11 3.71 1.08 0.24 77 934
90 -5.29 5.60 1.63 3.87 4.10 1.19 0.27 75 921
100 -7.61 7.26 2.11 4.71 4.49 1.31 0.31 73 909
110 -10.35 8.97 2.61 5.63 4.88 1.42 0.34 71 897
120 -13.52 10.75 3.13 6.62 5.26 1.53 0.37 70 886
130 -17.14 12.58 3.66 7.68 5.64 1.64 0.41 68 875
140 -21.21 14.45 4.20 8.83 6.01 1.75 0.44 66 864
150 -25.75 16.38 4.76 10.04 6.39 1.86 0.48 65 854
160 -30.77 18.35 5.34 11.33 6.76 1.97 0.51 63 844
170 -36.27 20.36 5.92 12.69 7.12 2.07 0.55 62 834
180 -42.27 22.41 6.52 14.13 7.49 2.18 0.59 60 824
190 -48.78 24.50 7.13 15.64 7.85 2.28 0.62 59 815
200 -55.82 26.63 7.75 17.22 8.21 2.39 0.66 58 806
210 -63.39 28.81 8.38 18.87 8.58 2.49 0.70 56 797
220 -71.51 31.02 9.02 20.60 8.93 2.60 0.73 55 789
230 -80.19 33.27 9.68 22.39 9.29 2.70 0.77 54 780
240 -89.44 35.57 10.35 24.27 9.65 2.81 0.81 53 772
250 -99.27 37.90 11.02 26.21 10.01 2.91 0.85 52 764
260 -109.70 40.27 11.71 28.23 10.36 3.01 0.89 51 756
270 -120.73 42.68 12.42 30.32 10.72 3.12 0.93 50 748
280 -132.39 45.13 13.13 32.49 11.08 3.22 0.97 49 740
290 -144.68 47.62 13.85 34.73 11.43 3.33 1.01 48 732
300 -157.62 50.15 14.59 37.05 11.79 3.43 1.05 47 725

In my experience of shooting at 230 yards I found out that using high velocity rounds in 40 grains either CCI or Aguila shot more consistently where I could brake clays and their fragments. Now I did cheat at the beginning because I would put the targets on the side of the berm where I could see impacts and adjust my shooting from that.

In my range there is a constant swirling breeze that comes at you from all directions so it made it fun and challenging because that is a good way to learn how to read the wind. I found out that with subsonic rounds I would miss very close to the clay, a couple of inches at most by the time I got the rifle dialed in all directions of the compass or clock. I assume because the slower round gave the wind more time to affect its trajectory, whereas I had more hits with the higher velocity rounds. Just my observation and I am using a 10/22 rifle with a 20" barrel either the tac-sol barrel or the Kidd barrel. Both barrels performed better with the higher velocity rounds.

I also found out that my usual elevation adjustment from a 50 yard zero to 100 yards normally needed to be between 10 to 12 moa and from 100 yards to 200 and 230 between 26 to 30 moa of elevation adjustment. Was not much of a difference when I used my longer barrels on my 52C or my Remington 513T for MOA adjustment either, according to the Redfield sights.

The chart above is close to what I would get. But some one else may get different numbers.

OK, so 26+ MOA after getting to 100 or from 50?

silveroak · Dec 29, 2023

Hey. I am not the only one doing this

...
THR: https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/22lr-long-range-practice.596860/

Varminterror · Dec 29, 2023

Ru4real said:
In person, you wouldn’t have said what you said, so forgiveness goes both ways.

What part of Utah? I’ll be out there in February and I’m glad to deliver the message in person. I don’t forgive anyone for gatekeeping newbies away from long range shooting. Ever.

It’s not productive when folks try to pretend long range shooting is so difficult. Frankly, I’d rather see new shooters TRY something new and challenging, even if they’re not immediately successful, because they WILL learn quickly when they challenge themselves, but find failure, then subsequently rise to the challenge and figure out how to succeed. So no, I don’t forgive gatekeeping.

I’ve shot out to 500 many times with my 22LR’s - one is a 10” pistol which has ~60moa of base angle and can’t actually zero at 100yrds any more, just to enable dialing that far. My son used to bang a 12” square at 400yrds from POSITIONAL barricades every month after we finished with our centerfire rifles. I know a few guys who shoot 22LR ELR, and practice out to 1000 - but it does take uncommon optical devices to gain that much elevation correction. There’s a thread here also where I called another gatekeeper to his own shooting challenge - which he never did fire - where I shot one of my 22LR rifles standing, offhand on a 10” gong at 150 yards without slipping any off of the plate (almost certain those were CCI minimags, since that’s what my brother in law had in his garage, when I realized I forgot my own ammo). The same gong I typically use for a 325yrd target when I’m shooting from the bench.

My son shot his 22 to 400 yards for the first time when he was 6yrs old. I’ve shared the photo here several times of his 300yrd target from that day - a 66% IPSC, 12” wide - with his hair visibly blowing in the wind. If a 6yr old with a $50 scope on a $150 rifle and a $30 knock off bipod can put cheap Win Wildcat and Rem Thunderbolt onto 3moa in 15mph winds, or a year older when 7yrs old can hit a 4” square at 200 with a 10” 22LR specialty pistol using the same rotgut ammo, it’s hard for me to believe so many grown men find it so difficult…

Ask more of your rifles and your skills, learn where your limitations fall, and learn to raise them.

silveroak · Dec 30, 2023

Varminterror said:
What part of Utah? I’ll be out there in February and I’m glad to deliver the message in person. I don’t forgive anyone for gatekeeping newbies away from long range shooting. Ever.

It’s not productive when folks try to pretend long range shooting is so difficult. Frankly, I’d rather see new shooters TRY something new and challenging, even if they’re not immediately successful, because they WILL learn quickly when they challenge themselves, but find failure, then subsequently rise to the challenge and figure out how to succeed. So no, I don’t forgive gatekeeping.

I’ve shot out to 500 many times with my 22LR’s - one is a 10” pistol which has ~60moa of base angle and can’t actually zero at 100yrds any more, just to enable dialing that far. My son used to bang a 12” square at 400yrds from POSITIONAL barricades every month after we finished with our centerfire rifles. I know a few guys who shoot 22LR ELR, and practice out to 1000 - but it does take uncommon optical devices to gain that much elevation correction. There’s a thread here also where I called another gatekeeper to his own shooting challenge - which he never did fire - where I shot one of my 22LR rifles standing, offhand on a 10” gong at 150 yards without slipping any off of the plate (almost certain those were CCI minimags, since that’s what my brother in law had in his garage, when I realized I forgot my own ammo). The same gong I typically use for a 325yrd target when I’m shooting from the bench.

My son shot his 22 to 400 yards for the first time when he was 6yrs old. I’ve shared the photo here several times of his 300yrd target from that day - a 66% IPSC, 12” wide - with his hair visibly blowing in the wind. If a 6yr old with a $50 scope on a $150 rifle and a $30 knock off bipod can put cheap Win Wildcat and Rem Thunderbolt onto 3moa in 15mph winds, or a year older when 7yrs old can hit a 4” square at 200 with a 10” 22LR specialty pistol using the same rotgut ammo, it’s hard for me to believe so many grown men find it so difficult…

Ask more of your rifles and your skills, learn where your limitations fall, and learn to raise them.

Yes, I am in this camp.
I enjoy making low-, suprplus- and mid-end gear work, or understand why it does not.
To me, this is a question of "practical" and curiosity. I do understand that with all the variables being very good is likely outside of my horizon.

Walkalong · Dec 30, 2023

I had never shot over 600 yards in my life, and mostly not over 400ish, when all the print about PRS got me interested.

Bought a rifle, signed up for a match, and have been having fun ever since. We got into "long range" .22 LR (NRL-22 etc) after that, and it's fun as well. You quickly learn what works and what doesn't if you stick with it, and if you go to matches, the nice helpful folks at matches can make the learning curve much easier.

silveroak · Dec 31, 2023

Armed with all the comments, I went back and happy to report that I was successful hitting the plate at 200 consistently and consecutively.

OS/N's comments got me back to observing impacts, I started aiming at berm dirt behind the targets and dialing up. That worked.
(With all the focus on targets, I've forgotten how much fun it can be shooting at random wood, dirt and stones to see impacts, enjoyed it).

But I think my scopes or mounting is suspect now. Please read below.

Rifles are both M&P 15-22, purchased at same time, with two budget scopes purchased at the same time, both zeroes at a 100 yards.

Rifle 1 needed a 24 MOA come up (from a 100 yard zero). As labeled on the scope, this represents a full turret turn coming up of 15 MOA plus additional 9 MOA of come up.
Rifle 2 could not come up enough and was hitting the turret stop. Dialing up did have an effect, but was diminishing and also appeared inconsistent.

On Rifle 1, 24 MOA come up, as labeled, from a 100 yard zero is more than I've every seen in calculators, posts here or other places. Too much?
Rifle 2 could not even get there.

I will be dismounting the scopes from rings and double checking mounting/tension next. May need to get better scopes in the end.

So M&P 15-22 and MiniMag can do it.
The snag in this case appear to be the scopes.
Very interesting. Really highlights any potential internal or accumulated error in budget scope turrets or mounting issues.
I never had to go full turret turn plus a lot more on any other caliber for the shooting I've done.
Another insight is that getting two rifles that are supposed to be exactly the same to shoot the same is not simple.

I am enjoying this challenge.
I get it now - the combination represents a real "outer envelope" challenge with 22 LR at 200. (blowback semi rifles, budget scopes, ammo not made for precision).

Will keep posting.

Walkalong · Dec 31, 2023

silveroak said:
May need to get better scopes in the end.

After your post, I would agree.

Or dial them in for the distance you're shooting and have fun, but if you want to dial for multiple distances, yes, an upgrade will likely save a lot of frustration.

Mauser lover · Dec 31, 2023

Odds are, your scopes are not really perfectly calibrated to be "1/4 per click" or whatever they say on the turrets. Most are not, and I'm not aware of any cheap ones that really do track accurately.

On my plinkers, I just dial it to what I want and have fun.

You can use some sort of easily repeatable holdover for the scope that won't adjust far enough. Maybe where the crosshair gets wider.

Steve Milbocker · Dec 31, 2023

Never tried shooting any serious groups but I don’t have a lot of trouble hitting an 8” steel dinger at 200 yards with just about any run of the mill 22LR fodder. Lots of fun at any rate

OS/N · Dec 31, 2023

You can add a 20MOA rail/mount but it will put you at the end of travel at 25 yrds with most optics. Somewhat stretches the scope limits and makes me think damage may be going on inside the scope. I went to a bullet drop type retical and the scope is alot more reliable and settled down. The lines are a little fat on the scope I have on the bolt 22 - I may stick one of my moa c/f scopes on and fiddle with it the next time.

I think 200yrd shooting w 22rf is good exercise for longer range c/f shooting. You basically face the same challanges it's just scaled down and easier to go through the paces on a small footprint and cost.

ms6852 · Dec 31, 2023

silveroak said:
OK, so 26+ MOA after getting to 100 or from 50?

For me , with my rifles from 50 yards to 100 requires about 10 to 12 moa elevation adjustment depending on ammo used. From 50 yards to 100 takes a total of 26+ MOA adjustment. From 100 yards to 200 takes me an addition 16 to 18 moa adjustment.

ms6852 · Dec 31, 2023

jmr40 said:
I've done some shooting as far as 250 yards with 22's. It helps to have a scope with turrets to adjust but it is possible with a conventional scope. You're going to have to take the cap off and twist the dials. I used the "trial and error" method to figure out how much to twist the dials on my scopes. I started with a LARGE sheet of paper at 200 yards to get some bullet holes in it, then adjusted from there.

I make it a point that when I buy a scope for my 22lr rifles that the elevation moa adjustment knob be a minimum of 80 MOA or higher. Also, the scopes for all my 22's all have the higher magnification factors as well, consequently my most expensive scopes are on my 22's.

ms6852 · Dec 31, 2023

silveroak said:
I will be dismounting the scopes from rings and double checking mounting/tension next. May need to get better scopes in the end.

Before I had the money to buy the better scopes with higher magnification and more elevation adjustment, I had a scope with a mil-dot reticle that I would use the lower part of the reticle to zero at various distances from 25 to 200 yards. By the time I got to 200 yards using the same aim point of the lower reticle it would allow me enough elevation adjustment to reach 200 yards and beyond.

irishlad · Dec 31, 2023

Varminterror said:
Poorly matched equipment in uneducated and inexperienced hands will yield poor results - but none of the above represents what is truly possible.

Happy to see ya posting again. Missed your insight and info.

Walkalong · Dec 31, 2023

With my Tract LR 4-20 on a 20moa rail I have 13.9 Mils of adjustment, one day we shot at 333 yards and I had to hold another .5 Mil after dialing 13.9. Worked fine, but it gives you an idea of what we’re up against.

rdnktrkr · Jan 1, 2024

I would definitely suggest at least a 20moa mount, 1st focal plane scope for your search of 200yrd accuracy with 22lr, also I feel mounting your scope correctly has an effect and check your barrel to receiver fit. Are you using a standard trigger? I noticed when I went from a mil spec trigger to a Rock River drop in that accuracy improved on my Grendel AR. I also went to a solid stock instead of the adjustable. When shooting long distance, a minute movement at the gun makes a big difference at the target.

silveroak · Jan 1, 2024

rdnktrkr said:
I would definitely suggest at least a 20moa mount, 1st focal plane scope for your search of 200yrd accuracy with 22lr, also I feel mounting your scope correctly has an effect and check your barrel to receiver fit. Are you using a standard trigger? I noticed when I went from a mil spec trigger to a Rock River drop in that accuracy improved on my Grendel AR. I also went to a solid stock instead of the adjustable. When shooting long distance, a minute movement at the gun makes a big difference at the target.

Yes, standard trigger right now. Something to be said about barrel to receiver fit in 15-22 - not sure I have the issue - but the earlier ones were known for the handguard/barrel nut coming lose. I have the tool to tighten it, but I have to remove the flash hider and handguard cap to reach. The flash hider is really tight. I am planning to give it another try at some point.

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