.22 LR long-ish (long-er) range

[silveroak]

I think I really need some collective wisdom from .22 LR long(-ish, -er) range shooters here.

I run two SW M&P 15-22 (16" bbl) 9x scoped for practicing scoped prone/DMR fundamentals. Sometimes alone, sometimes with my son.

And I am not successful devising a recipe for consistent 200 yards ballistics.

I know 15-22 are not tuned bolt guns, not even close, but there has to be a recipe for 200 with these. I won't even try to take them further (unless, of course, THR sheds the light on the ballistics enigma here).

Hear me out.

Ammo: CCI Mini-Mag, measured avg. (over multiple sessions) ~1130 fps, fairly consistent, BC G1 0.13 (found multiple times online, can't even recall the number of sources, this has to be about right).
Zero: 100 yards
Scope height over bore: 2.767" (if not super-precise, this has to be very close. After experiencing my ballistics calculator issues at 200 I went back and recalculated this using receiver, rings and scope tube dimensions).

Ballistics calculator-based data is works just fine up to 200 yards.
My range even has an unknown-distance metal silhouette and a plate at 175 (laser rangefinder-based). 12.38 MOA come up rings them.
On the flip (shorter range) side, -1,55 MOA for 50 rings small flippers just fine.

Then 200.

Calculators-base come-up: 17.12 MOA (please feel free to run the calculations yourself).
It's short, like, significantly!
I don't have paper at 200, but I can see dirt splashes. Fairly frequently 17.12 MOA will actually ricochet at the steel in front with a very audible ring.
I start dialing up, seems like I am still often short with 20 MOA come-up.
I am fairly used to relying on ballistics calculators. Maybe they don't hold up so well with .22 LR father out.
Not going for groups. Steel silhouette and a plate.

What are your values? What should I be looking at? Temperature, pressure? Scope issues? Or maybe this is the case when BC no longer holds up at the distance?

Thank you, THR!

 

[Walkalong]

Better barrels, better ammo. One of our CZ shooters was running CCI Standard velocity ammo at the last NRL-22 match. He says it does pretty well out to 150, but then goes all to crap, and that's some of the better non "match" ammo from a very accurate rifle/barrel.

 

[d2wing]

200 yards with a .22 LR is not easy. My opinion is that you need a much better rifle and much better ammo. You did not mention group size at any range. That would be helpful.

 

[45/30-06OKIE]

Better barrels, better ammo. One of our CZ shooters was running CCI Standard velocity ammo at the last NRL-22 match. He says it does pretty well out to 150, but then goes all to crap, and that's some of the better non "match" ammo from a very accurate rifle/barrel.

I've noticed CCI SV is pretty decent out of my 457 Pro Varmint as well. I finally got a nice pic rail and scope rings for mine and put a Viper HS 6-24 on it. I need to test it out and zero it soon...

 

[2ndtimer]

200 yards with a .22 LR is not easy. My opinion is that you need a much better rifle and much better ammo. You did not mention group size at any range. That would be helpful.

I agree. Our club has informal .22 LR matches at 100 yards. I played around with my S&W M&P 15-22 at 100 and quickly realized that it would not be competitive, even with the “fun” competitors (leaving out the Anschutz and custom gun guys with the $20 a box imported ammo). I bought a CZ 455 standard bolt with a 19” barrel and shot a few matches with CCI Standard velocity ammo and was able to at least keep them on the targets at 100 yards. Then “splurged” on some SK Standard Plus for $8 a box and it did a lot better. Haven’t tried it at 200 yards yet, and my scope is only 14x at maximum, but here is one of my latest targets at 100 yards.

 

[C-grunt]

I have found the Mini Mags to be pretty inconsistent at distance. Even out of my Bergara B14R. Also, most guys will run sub sonics in 22 to not have to deal with transonic issues.

Id try better ammo or at least a subsonic load. But you also have to factor in that the M&P 15-22 want made for precision shooting.

 

[rdnktrkr]

Playing with different ammo WILL make a difference in a 22lr, Mini Mags was not even in the top 5, I had better luck with their SV, even Federal AM shot better than Mini Mags. I would get some standard velocity ammo from as many different MFGs as you can and then start over with your quest at 200yrds, at that distance I think some higher priced ammo will help a lot.

 

[jmr40]

I've done some shooting as far as 250 yards with 22's. It helps to have a scope with turrets to adjust but it is possible with a conventional scope. You're going to have to take the cap off and twist the dials. I used the "trial and error" method to figure out how much to twist the dials on my scopes. I started with a LARGE sheet of paper at 200 yards to get some bullet holes in it, then adjusted from there.

Everyone says Mini Mags aren't accurate enough, but that is what I use. My rifles are only a tiny bit more accurate with standard speed target ammo, but at 200 yards they are so slow I don't have enough adjustment in my scopes to get on paper. The 36 gr MiniMags have a flatter trajectory. I might do better with another type of ammo, but this is working for me for now.

With a 50 yard zero 6 clicks up will get me pretty close at 100 yards. I may need to fine tune it, but I'll be on paper. At 200 yards I needed to turn the dial 1 full revolution + 10-12 clicks to get close. I ran out of scope adjustment at 250 and was still hitting about a foot low. I just had to aim a little high at that range.

It also takes a pretty accurate rifle and I don't know that your 15/22 is accurate enough.

A 250 yard target shot with my Tikka T1x. My 1st 2 shots were way low and a slight breeze was pushing them right. I'm actually using the top left link in the chain as my aiming point for the next 8 shots. Six hit, 2 missed. The bigger spot was from a 223 fired earlier.

At 200 yards. I put blue tape behind the holes to help them show up better. I reused a target left behind by another shooter by taping over their bullet holes. That's a sub 2" 200 yard group with a 22. I'm a little high, but close enough.

 

[Mauser lover]

My biggest thought is that you should not trust ballistic calculators like this without verification.

Any scale is more usable or accurate at the middle of its range than the extreme edges of its range. Don’t use your 1/2 drive torque wrench for scope rings. Even if it’s advertised as being able to read in inch pounds, it won’t be accurate.

You are at the extreme edge of .22 LR with that load and rifle. Your ballistic calculator will get you to the ballpark, but it’s not perfect at that point. It’s still fun to shoot a non-precision rifle at beyond normal range, you just need to realize that you are at the edge. You aren’t doing anything wrong, you probably aren’t forgetting anything, it’s just the limitation of the equipment.

 

[Remington1911]

I do this on a fairly regular basis, and I will echo what other people say....ammo ammo ammo. Then on the other hand your rifle might just not do it. I have some that do great at 100, 150 then to to hell at 200. Like not cutting paper. How I could cover them with a dollar bill at 150 and where are they now. I cut down a cardboard box our new fridge came in (BIG ASS BOX) PUT IT BEHIND THE TARGET (only paper, steel will send stuff flying and cutup the box something horrid). I bet I had feet between the impacts, and they are just all over the map. Some way high, way left, I swear I saw some hit the ground and I could hear the bounce. That gun just flat refused to do it.

It really is fun to do, and it really is fun to do it with no ears (do as I say not as I do children). I have done it with 22 longs, that is a hoot. Only 700ish FPS and the drop is really something. Shoot..............................................................................ding. Just so cool.

I have more then a few 22's that hate one type of ammo, and loves others. A few shoot all but one just OK, but the one it really likes.

Longer range with a 22 is huge fun. But now I generally hang out at 100 yards, just too far to walk anymore.

 

[Ru4real]

IMO, shooting 22 LR past 100 is like shooting 223 past 600. You can do it, but the choice is dumber and dumber the further you go.

”I can hit a plate at 200 with a 22.”
Yea, maybe 20% of the time, is that really “success” ?

 

[someguy2800]

The trick is to use subsonic ammo such as CCI standard, eley, ect... High velocity ammo like mini mags will go through the transonic zone typically around 100ish yard which destabilizes the bullet. If you just start out subsonic there is no transonic zone.

 

[someguy2800]

”I can hit a plate at 200 with a 22.”
Yea, maybe 20% of the time, is that really “success” ?

Here is me hitting a plate 90% of the time at 200 with a pistol.

 

[Remington1911]

IMO, shooting 22 LR past 100 is like shooting 223 past 600. You can do it, but the choice is dumber and dumber the further you go.

”I can hit a plate at 200 with a 22.”
Yea, maybe 20% of the time, is that really “success” ?

You can hit a plate 20% of the time, take my rifle with the ammo it likes and I can do it 90% of the time.

You might not be able to, and that that explains your position.

 

[Ru4real]

Here is me hitting a plate 90% of the time at 200 with a pistol.

“Time” is always. Post up some vids hitting the plate in the wind, sleet, rain. From your truck window on a never been shot at random lasered 200 yard target.

You probably get my point. “Always“ success will be way less than the ideal, practiced conditions you posted. A good video nonetheless.

Didn‘t mean to derail. Enjoy shooting long with 22 LR, OP.

 

[Chuck R.]

As the other's said, it's all about your ammo.

I use Mini-Mags for squirrels out to about 50yds. It's minute of squirrel head at about 20yds in my 77/22

My practice ammo for my Bergara B14R is Norma TAC 22, which normally gives me about .45" at 50yds. Good enough to stay on a 4" plate at 200 consistently and when "tuned" for it I can hit a 1/4" KYL rack TGT about 85% of the time prone, rear supported. Biggest issue is the flyers and higher SD (double digits). I use evey inch of the 4" plate. $36.00 for 500 rds.

"Tuned" TAC at TGT #2:

The "good stuff" Lapua LR and SK LR Match shoots at .25 to .30 consistently, almost zero flyers and SDs in single digits. It's night and day differences in group size. Lapua LR is about $175 delivered for 500 rds.

Un-tuned SK (left) and Lapua (right):

The tuner; EC V2 will shave about .1 off of the normally very good groups.

 

[silveroak]

Thank you all for the replies.

Yes, this pushing it - I understand. It's so happens that my range does not have paper beyond 100 and from there it is sparsely placed steel. I only have 50, 175 and 200 (and beyond) steel.

jmr40: At 200 yards I needed to turn the dial 1 full revolution + 10-12 clicks to get close - that's kind of what I am seeing.

Appreciate more MOA or MIL come ups from 100 or 50 zeroes from members.

 

[someguy2800]

Post up some vids hitting the plate in the wind, sleet, rain. From your truck window on a never been shot at random lasered 200 yard target.

Why in gods name would I want to do that?

 

[Chuck R.]

Here's SK LR Match, 50yd zero, MV 1113 FPS at 72 degrees with a 10MPH 90 degree wind curtesy of Strelok Pro:

Distance, yards​	Bullet speed, f/s​	Elevation, MOA​	Elevation, MRAD​	Windage, MOA​	Windage, MRAD​
25.0​	1068.1​	U1.1​	U0.3​	L0.9​	L0.3​
50.0​	1029.8​	U0.4​	U0.1​	L1.9​	L0.6​
75.0​	996.9​	U2.8​	U0.8​	L2.8​	L0.8​
100.0​	968.0​	U6.0​	U1.8​	L3.7​	L1.1​
125.0​	942.0​	U9.8​	U2.8​	L4.6​	L1.3​
150.0​	918.3​	U13.8​	U4.0​	L5.4​	L1.6​
175.0​	896.4​	U18.1​	U5.3​	L6.3​	L1.8​
200.0​	876.8​	U22.4​	U6.5​	L7.0​	L2.0​
225.0​	857.5​	U27.2​	U7.9​	L7.8​	L2.3​
250.0​	839.2​	U32.1​	U9.3​	L8.6​	L2.5​
275.0​	821.8​	U37.1​	U10.8​	L9.4​	L2.7​
300.0​	805.1​	U42.4​	U12.3​	L10.2​	L3.0​
325.0​	789.1​	U47.9​	U13.9​	L10.9​	L3.2​
350.0​	773.6​	U53.5​	U15.6​	L11.7​	L3.4​
375.0​	759.3​	U59.0​	U17.2​	L12.4​	L3.6​
400.0​	744.7​	U65.0​	U18.9​	L13.2​	L3.8​

 

[doubleh]

I have found CCI-SV to be more accurate than any high velocity 22 ammo in every one of my 22 caliber guns, handgun or rifle. That said it is not up to snuff with slightly higher priced SV offerings and not every gun likes the same ammo. Throw in that different lots of the same ammo vary and 22 rimfire shooting for the best accuracy can become somewhat frustrating. The only way to determine exactly where you setup is going to hit at any range is to shoot it at that range. Tables and calculator will only get you close.

I see shooting 22 rimfire at 200 and up yardage as more like mortor than rifle shooting.

 

[Joshua M. Smith]

Back when I was playing with long-range .22lr, I used the D Rock tool, described here

https://www.rimfirecentral.com/threads/d-rock-22-caliber-bullet-sizer-review.345231/

and used it on CCI Subsonic loads.

My rifle rifle is a Savage stainless with heavy barrel and +20moa scope mount. It's ok, but I'd not recommend one for this nor will I buy another. Too flimsy and I've had several issues with it over the years.

 

[silveroak]

Here's SK LR Match, 50yd zero, MV 1113 FPS at 72 degrees with a 10MPH 90 degree wind curtesy of Strelok Pro:

Distance, yards​	Bullet speed, f/s​	Elevation, MOA​	Elevation, MRAD​	Windage, MOA​	Windage, MRAD​
25.0​	1068.1​	U1.1​	U0.3​	L0.9​	L0.3​
50.0​	1029.8​	U0.4​	U0.1​	L1.9​	L0.6​
75.0​	996.9​	U2.8​	U0.8​	L2.8​	L0.8​
100.0​	968.0​	U6.0​	U1.8​	L3.7​	L1.1​
125.0​	942.0​	U9.8​	U2.8​	L4.6​	L1.3​
150.0​	918.3​	U13.8​	U4.0​	L5.4​	L1.6​
175.0​	896.4​	U18.1​	U5.3​	L6.3​	L1.8​
200.0​	876.8​	U22.4​	U6.5​	L7.0​	L2.0​
225.0​	857.5​	U27.2​	U7.9​	L7.8​	L2.3​
250.0​	839.2​	U32.1​	U9.3​	L8.6​	L2.5​
275.0​	821.8​	U37.1​	U10.8​	L9.4​	L2.7​
300.0​	805.1​	U42.4​	U12.3​	L10.2​	L3.0​
325.0​	789.1​	U47.9​	U13.9​	L10.9​	L3.2​
350.0​	773.6​	U53.5​	U15.6​	L11.7​	L3.4​
375.0​	759.3​	U59.0​	U17.2​	L12.4​	L3.6​
400.0​	744.7​	U65.0​	U18.9​	L13.2​	L3.8​

So, more like up 16.4 MOA from a 100 zero (22.4 - 6.0)? That puts me short.
Any chance to rerun at 60 degrees, 100 yard zero with MiniMag? I have heard great thins about Strelok, but it may not have the MiniMag.

 

[someguy2800]

So, more like up 16.4 MOA from a 100 zero (22.4 - 6.0)? That puts me short.
Any chance to rerun at 60 degrees, 100 yard zero with MiniMag? I have heard great thins about Strelok, but it may not have the MiniMag.

You really need to get away from that minimag. Its great ammo right until it goes transonic, just like every other supersonic 22 ammo. Supersonic 22 ammo really has no place in long range shooting.

 

[Chuck R.]

So, more like up 16.4 MOA from a 100 zero (22.4 - 6.0)? That puts me short.
Any chance to rerun at 60 degrees, 100 yard zero with MiniMag? I have heard great thins about Strelok, but it may not have the MiniMag.

Which mini-mag?

and I agree with someguy.. you're wasting your time and money trying to get mini-mags to shoot at extended distances.

 

[film495]

IMO, shooting 22 LR past 100 is like shooting 223 past 600. You can do it, but the choice is dumber and dumber the further you go.

”I can hit a plate at 200 with a 22.”
Yea, maybe 20% of the time, is that really “success” ?

sounds like fun trying though. first three hits in row wins!