I figure the difference is with the animals that can run dead.
M2 Ball Yaw?
- Thread starter toledo
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Your so passionate about educating the masses its like having Jesus right here. Actually with some sources quoting 50,000 cup and other quoting 50,000 psi I chose to research old writings on duplicating M72 match ammo from the years around when I was born. So I duplicate that and the M what ever 150 match load. I resize to cut down on head space a measured amount. Works fine. I've never used store bought and won't unless im after brass. Just cost too much and I'm picky on who I trust. Although Jesus was a trust worthy person I hear but can't verify.
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No question that the Garand would perform well given these conditions! As has been stated above, soft point ammo would be a better choice than FMJ.
In fact, having taken my Garand out of an extended forced retirement w/addition of an optic sight wanted to see how it would perform in the field. Worked up a load w/4895 (closely matching M2 pressures) and 125 Gr. NBT and put it to the test so took it out and called a coyote.
Sight picture @ 175 yards
Iron sights, 3.5# trigger off sticks @ 175 yards.
No question the Garand is up to the task.
22250Rem
Member
Good idea. Don't know what distances the OP may have to shoot at, but with iron sights I'm not as proficient as I was in my younger days. My Garand has been out for deer a few times, with no luck yet. Mostly in wooded areas where there's no worry about having to make a real long range shot on an animal. Just used my M2 equivalent handload with IMR-4895 powder and a 150 gr. Nosler Accubond in place of the 150 gr. FMJ that I used when shooting CMP matches. Still just as accurate and gets similar velocity readings, so there's no worries about wear & tear on that old M-1 op-rod. Some states, ( like mine), limit you to 5 rounds in a semi-auto hunting rifle; which is no problem as 5 round M-1 clips are easily available
.. The 150 gr. Accubond has slain whitetails, mule deer, and even a pig in my Savage Mod. 10 in 300 WSM. With my aging eyesight, I would prefer to use the Savage on Auodad, thanks to its having a 3.5-10x scope atop it, especially if the shot distance is stretched out a ways. Wouldn't hesitate to use a 30 cal. 150 gr. Accubond on those critters, though.
If I was going to hunt with a Garand, I'd load up some Sierra 165 HPBT GK's, #2140. I'd use my Garand 168 HPBT Match Bullet load of 46.5 Varget. I've shot that bullet out of my M70 for decades and its devastating on whitetails and even 1 black bear. Aoudad can get pretty big and this should be quite effective on them as well.
www.sierrabullets.com
.30 Cal 165 Gr. HPBT GameKing - Sierra Bullets
For rifles in 30 caliber, this 165 grain #2140 Hollow Point Boat Tail bullet, which is patterned after the world-famous 168 grain MatchKing bullet, was designed for shooters who desire a hunting version of that famous MatchKing. It is slightly
www.sierrabullets.com
If and when you get a shot you can use that load w/confidence. I've taken a couple with the Garand w/that same load behind a NP. The Accubond is equally effective on game.
Reduced round clips are relatively easy to make. I've made them for 2 rounds and 5 rounds formed with a piece of 1" square hot rolled steel w/ radius ground on one corner as an anvil. A little experimenting is necessary to find where to drill the hole and then hacksaw as shown. Clamp clip in vise w/anvil in place and roll lip w/small hammer.
22250Rem
Member
Thanks for the feedback. I dug out my reloading notes and there were three main loads that stood out with 150 gr. bullets & IMR-4895 including the one with the 150 gr. Accubond. That one's actually half a grain below my main CMP match load, ( pardon my memory) but chrono's at about 2600 FPS. That bullet @ 2600 FPS muzzle velocity is something I'm sure would work well on any deer that I pursue. The same bullet can be launched from a 300 WSM at an average of 3207 FPS, and with zero experience with auodads I'd bet that it would work good on them. Now this all has me wondering how much the difference on auodads would be between the 2600 FPS of my Garand and the 3207 FPS of my 300 WSM when both are using that same bullet? I'm sure the OP would also be interested in this fascinating topic.
W.E.G.
Member
You're right bro.
Goat be dead in 20 seconds if shot with Gucci bullets.
Might take 30 seconds shot with a 30-06 FMJ.
Goat be dead in 20 seconds if shot with Gucci bullets.
Might take 30 seconds shot with a 30-06 FMJ.
W.E.G.
Member
2-round clips are awesome when they work.
But, when they call "IS THE FIRING LINE READY?!!!" at the Garand match at Camp Perry - then followed by a red paddle and the tower calling "THE LINE IS NOT READY!!!" - 95% of the time its some guy with one of those goofy clips can't get it to load.
It is REALLY SIMPLE to load a Garand with less than 8 rounds if you know what you're doing.
Awful lot of people don't know what they're doing. Its disturbing.
One of my Garands has a "worked-on" trigger. Its pretty decent. I can't shoot OFFHAND worth crap. So Bronze Medal for me. Oh well...
They were so impressed with some of us can't-shoot-offhand Garand shooters one year, they gave us all Short-Bus medals.
You really can't make this stuff up.
But, when they call "IS THE FIRING LINE READY?!!!" at the Garand match at Camp Perry - then followed by a red paddle and the tower calling "THE LINE IS NOT READY!!!" - 95% of the time its some guy with one of those goofy clips can't get it to load.
It is REALLY SIMPLE to load a Garand with less than 8 rounds if you know what you're doing.
Awful lot of people don't know what they're doing. Its disturbing.
One of my Garands has a "worked-on" trigger. Its pretty decent. I can't shoot OFFHAND worth crap. So Bronze Medal for me. Oh well...
They were so impressed with some of us can't-shoot-offhand Garand shooters one year, they gave us all Short-Bus medals.
You really can't make this stuff up.
A double lunged or heart shot deer can run up to 40 yards when shot with any decent hunting bullet. The problem is not how long it takes for the animal to expire, it is how far they can travel in that extra time and how thick the cover is.
Absolutely. I ran our club's DCM matches for 12 years and it was absolutely scary watching some folks load a Garand. One clinic we had 100 registered shooters and I had only 4 or 5 line officers to help keep order on the line. Most of the shooters had never held an M1, let alone shoot one. That was a long day! I was really relieved when the day was done and we only had one injury; one of the line officers got an M1 thumb while helping a newbie load his rifle and between the two of them someone managed to trip the bolt when they shouldn't have.I experimented with making the 2 round clips for such times and they worked reasonably well, especially for new shooters. I did not care for them for my own use, but did make a few 5 rounders for friends hunting out of state. TX does not limit magazine capacity.
I was issued my first M1 in 1954 have had one ever since & developed quite an affinity for them. Shot service rifle competition in the service and as a civilian until the front sight began to look like a pitch fork then switched to a bolt gun for the better aperture front sights. Offhand was my nemesis, as well. Did finally manage to make high master in 96 but not with the garand.
The two round clips I have purchased for my M1’s have performed flawlessly.
Yes, I can load two rounds in an eight round clip but the two round clips make that easier.
I’ve resisted making my own as I would probably loose a few clips and while 8 round clips are not expensive, a couple failed modifications makes the modified clips more costly.
Ditto for the 5 round clips.
Yes, I can load two rounds in an eight round clip but the two round clips make that easier.
I’ve resisted making my own as I would probably loose a few clips and while 8 round clips are not expensive, a couple failed modifications makes the modified clips more costly.
Ditto for the 5 round clips.
Lots of folks have said they have not had any problems shooting current 30-06 hunting ammunition in a Garand.
What everyone needs to realize the gas system in a Garand is the weak link. Excessive port pressure can damge the Op-rod and Op-rods are getting difficult to find and shops that repair Op-rods are few and far between.
With modern 30-06 ammunition, the chamber pressure is no higher than 1940’s vintage ammunition but the burn rate is slower so the pressures at the end if the barrel when the bullet is exiting the barrel are higher. The gas port on the Garand is at the end of the barrel. So, the modern ammunition creates a higher port pressure than the Garand can accept.
As noted, there are a couple gas plugs available that will release the excess pressure. These have been around for a long time.
Will firing a round or two of modern ammunition wreck a Garand, probably not. Long term use, you’ll probably damage your Op-rod.
The Op-rod is durable enough to work under conditions it was designed for. But, at the difficulty in replacing or repairing the Op-rods, why even consider risking damaging it.
If you are a reloader, a list of suitable powders for the Garand is all over the internet. You can load hunting bullets the same weight as FMJ bullets over the Garand safe powders with good results.
There are a couple Garand safe ammunition available but they tend to be FMJ type ammunition
For non reloaders wanting to hunt with their Garand, one is the pressure reducing gas plugs is the way to go.
What everyone needs to realize the gas system in a Garand is the weak link. Excessive port pressure can damge the Op-rod and Op-rods are getting difficult to find and shops that repair Op-rods are few and far between.
With modern 30-06 ammunition, the chamber pressure is no higher than 1940’s vintage ammunition but the burn rate is slower so the pressures at the end if the barrel when the bullet is exiting the barrel are higher. The gas port on the Garand is at the end of the barrel. So, the modern ammunition creates a higher port pressure than the Garand can accept.
As noted, there are a couple gas plugs available that will release the excess pressure. These have been around for a long time.
Will firing a round or two of modern ammunition wreck a Garand, probably not. Long term use, you’ll probably damage your Op-rod.
The Op-rod is durable enough to work under conditions it was designed for. But, at the difficulty in replacing or repairing the Op-rods, why even consider risking damaging it.
If you are a reloader, a list of suitable powders for the Garand is all over the internet. You can load hunting bullets the same weight as FMJ bullets over the Garand safe powders with good results.
There are a couple Garand safe ammunition available but they tend to be FMJ type ammunition
For non reloaders wanting to hunt with their Garand, one is the pressure reducing gas plugs is the way to go.
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Jeremy2171
Member
Again...lots of misinformation.
Modern ammo operates at the same pressures as milsurp.
The gas system isn't the weak link.... improper lubrication is.
They aren't "gas plugs"... those are only on gas trap garands. You are taking about gas cylinder lock screws.
Please explain what condition the oprod was designed to work under..
Commercial ammo is fine ... CMP has said so and so has nearly 60 years of civilians owning them an shooting commercial ammo in them.
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Problem is how far and how much trouble it will cause you in 20 to 30 seconds. I'm captian obvious again
Could you give us a link to that bulletin? I must have missed it. Thanks in advance.
Jeremy2171
Member
You linking cartoons implying he hit the nail on the head is only spreading the ignorance of the gas system.
Look in your garand manual the CMP included with your rifle for that information or go on their website.
The garand isn't as fragile as you and others on the internet imply it is..
I'd like to see that as well.
I won't bore you with how long it's been since I was issued my first M1 and have had/or owned at least one ever since. Let it suffice to say that the last M1 I purchased from the DCM (long before it was CMP) cost $98 and they didn't include manuals with them back in the dark ages.
I will agree that improper lube can contribute to op rod, as well as other faulures on the M1 and am always happy to learn something new, so would really appreciate it if you would be so kind as to take a picture of your manual and post it for my edification or a link to the DC.....CMP bulletin re: proper ammo for the M1,
It some respects, you are correct but the Oo-rod has been identified as a weak link. Replacement rods are getting hard to find and shops that repair Op-rods are few and far between.
The frame of a Garand is more than capable of handling the chamber pressure of about any 30-06 ammunition.,
Why risk damaging an Op-rod when WWII era loads/powders are known to be safe and still provide adequate performance.
I have a couple frames with OEM barrels. I've accumulated the parts to complete the rebulid of two rifles and finding Op-rods was difficult and this was a number of years ago.
I race amateur road racing with a Honda Civic. I obviously stress my engine beyond the capabilities that Honda designed into the engine for "grocery getter" service. Parts are still available to rebuild my Honda.
Parts for the Garand are getting hard to find unless some shop has decided to go into Op-rod production.
I use H4895, IMR4895 or Varget for my Garand reloads, powders with similar performance as WWII powders used in the Garand.
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Jeremy2171
Member
It's not a frame....it's a "receiver".
Again I keep repeating myself.... commercial ammo has the same port pressure as military ammo.
Milsurp ammo has a wide range of port pressure... commercial ammo falls into this range.
The oprod isn't the weak link.... improper or lack of lubrication is what causes issues with the oprod.
The Happy Kaboomer
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We installed one in my friends Garand.........Accuracy went to terrible with every load we shot.
Where are the preasure studies you keep referring to. I simply don't believe you. Powders burn at different rates so the preasure and volume of gas at the port simply can't be the same with every powder used. Simply not possible. Don't recall any single person that agrees with you. Can someone please back this ranting person up. It's like reading words from a raving lunatic writing about the world coming to an end. The ranting person might be right but is anyone listening. I don't trust rude loudmouth right or wrong. So my Garands get ammo that matches their age group and I use the same in my bolt test gun to great success. Hodgdon, Hornady, NRA and my own research is what I trust. Will someone with people skills and a high school writing level please prove this person right. He needs help. Really.
Jim Watson
Member
Doesn’t the Quickload computer game show port pressure?
Bcwitt
Member
The data on m2 performance yaw & break in 2, is 50 something-ish percent. A modern hunting bullet will out perform an m2 FMJ by a wide margin. If you must go low tech, get the heaviest lead round nose you can find.
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