22lr carry for defense??

Decades ago I was accidentally shot in the hand with a 22 hollow point. I will agree that whatever the bad guys intentions were will definitely be changed if shot with a 22 LR hollow point.
That is pure unwarranted speculation and fantasy. A lot of people have been shot multiple times with stuff a lot bigger than a .22 without stopping. Some people are just not afraid of getting shot.

Planning on an assailant giving up because he got shot with anything, let alone a .22 is foolish. What's your plan of attack when someone doesn't follow the script?
 
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That is pure unwarranted speculation and fantasy. A lot of people have been shot multiple times with stuff a lot bigger than a .22 without stopping. Some people are just not afraid of getting shot.

Planning on an assailant giving up because he got shot with anything, let alone a .22 is foolish. What's your plan of attack when someone doesn't follow the script?
Fight and/or run! And it’s not speculation, his experience is a fact that he is relaying. It’s also worth pointing out that to often, the choice of a CCW is the only point people discuss. Perhaps carrying a .22 is PART of a daily routine for avoiding trouble. Maybe, a .22, coupled with a muscular frame, and a decision to avoid dangerous locations is more effective than strapping on a 9mm, being out of shape, and wandering around questionable locations without a care in the world.
 
I think that is interesting that there are still people who think a "revolver" is a good choice for carry. I am all in favor of a revolver as a "range toy" or even as a hunting gun in the large calibers (although 10mm semi-automatic is probably a better choice).
Namely, why would you want to limit your ammo capacity to 5 or 6 rounds when even the tiny carry guns like Sig P-365X has 12+1 as standard.
At the ranges that I frequent, the people that shoot revolvers seem to have much worse accuracy than even the new shooters of semi-automatics.
 
The usual bases for recommending a revolver are that the user is
1. Not strong enough to rack the slide or load a magazine.
2. Is not smart enough or at least not interested enough to learn what all those buttons and levers do.
 
I think that is interesting that there are still people who think a "revolver" is a good choice for carry. I am all in favor of a revolver as a "range toy" or even as a hunting gun in the large calibers (although 10mm semi-automatic is probably a better choice).
Namely, why would you want to limit your ammo capacity to 5 or 6 rounds when even the tiny carry guns like Sig P-365X has 12+1 as standard.
At the ranges that I frequent, the people that shoot revolvers seem to have much worse accuracy than even the new shooters of semi-automatics.

I have revolvers and autoloaders as carry guns. Yep, the autoloaders typically hold more ammo and are superior at reloading.

Yet, double action revolvers in general point more naturally for me on the draw. But that's just me and my neanderthal formed revolver hands.
 
Seconding the opinion that 22lr is better than nothing, but there are a LOT of more powerful, more reliable calibers between 22lr and 9mm.
This is very true, but be aware that when it comes to 9mm there have been many complaints from shooters using Federal champion 9mm. They have noticed that compared to other brands the rounds on the Federal box seem under powered sometimes causing stove pipes because it would not cycle the slide completely. Don't know if this issue has already been addressed by the manufacturer as I my EDC is a revolver.
 
Fight and/or run! And it’s not speculation, his experience is a fact that he is relaying. It’s also worth pointing out that to often, the choice of a CCW is the only point people discuss. Perhaps carrying a .22 is PART of a daily routine for avoiding trouble. Maybe, a .22, coupled with a muscular frame, and a decision to avoid dangerous locations is more effective than strapping on a 9mm, being out of shape, and wandering around questionable locations without a care in the world.
Your response is ad hoc.
Nobody said anything about being out of shape or about blithely going to dangerous places.

Frogfurr's experience is just that: his experience. The problem is that people like him and you think like normal people. Criminals don't and violent criminals even less so.
 
The only good reasons I could think of to use a 22 for defense is either it is all that is available, or it is all the user can physically manage. I have seen many animals smaller and less aggressive than humans survive multiple hits from a 22. FWIW, I also have a P17.
 
I have chronographed various .22 LR from concealable size guns. Will tabulate here and run more, looking for Uppercut.
CCIs are reliable in M&P and Charter Arms. Beretta M21 is not dependable. Velocity in a 3” barrel is much less than the catalog velocity in rifle barrels.

.32ACP is more powerful and centerfire primed. But the flea weight Keltec is a kicker. A one pound .32, the size of a small .380 would be more comfortable and controllable.
 
I shoot a lot of .22, and IMO it is more reliable than its reputation. I shoot a couple of hundred rounds a week in practice and competition, and I can't remember when I last had a misfire. I'm not using the cheapest ammo, but I'm not using the most expensive either.
True – and I am using the cheapest ammo.
 
.22 Defense Velocity.
S&W M&P .22 Compact 3.6" barrel
Aguila SE 957 fps 81 ft lb
MiniMag 947 fps 80 ft lb
MiniMag #2 914 fps 74 ft lb
RP Gold HP 1010 fps (125 fps ES!)
Velocitor 976 fps 84 ft lb
CCI +V 1041 fps 96 ft lb (Discontinued in favor of Velocitor. Which does not keep up.)

Charter Arms Pathfinder 3"
MiniMag 955 fps 81 ft lb
MiniMag HP 1024 fps 84 ft lb
Velocitor 981 fps 85 ft lb

Beretta M21 2.4" (Not reliable.)
MiniMag 785 fps 55 ft lb
MiniMag HP 858 fps 59 ft lb
Velocitor 805 56 ft lb

KelTec P32 2.7"
Fiocchi FMJ 791 fps 101 ft lb

There were no malfunctions in Smith, Charter, or KelTec; only the Beretta flopped with two of the three loads shot. Its owner says it shoots best with Remington, I will try some in spite of its wide velocity spread.

Makes you wish there were more .32s, doesn't it? Keltec at 7 ounces is a hard kicker, but it would be nice at a pound or so, like a lot of small .380s.

I have some Punch and Silvertip, awaiting availability of Uppercut to compare their ideas of .22 defense.
 
The green and gold box... are those cheap Remingtons?

I have a 500 rounds or so box of those that I'm almost done with. There's been one dud round out of every 100 or so. Worse than usual.
 
The only Remingtons I have any more are the bulk bucket load, a "gold" hollowpoint.
Erratic velocity, two misfires and a stuck bullet between two of us who bought them as the only thing available during the panicdemic.
I had some old stock that was pretty good, a friend passed it along because it was not sufficiently accurate in his CZ452, but it all fed fired and functioned.
 
22LR is too small of a round for me to depend on it to protect my life or those around me. That sort of round is better for shooting varmints or plinking at the range. If I need to shoot I'm shooting to stop the threat. I'd rather at least a 9mm for that or larger.
 
This is why I suggested the LCP. It can be had in 22LR, and in 380. Practice with the 22. Carry the 380. Mine was not difficult to shoot. It was given to daughter.
The LCP in 380 is a horrible choice for someone that is recoil sensitive. I have a number of .22 pistols and you won’t get a 380 to recoil like a .22, but the Ruger Security 380 is much easier to handle and shoot than the LCP in 380. Now, I agree with you that it is easy to shoot the LCP. It is easy for me, but my daughter.
BTW.. I do love my LCP Max. It is a perfect pocket pistol and once you have settled on a defensive load, recoil can be mitigated a bit by changing out the recoil spring.
 
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age-old handgun debate #1: revolvers versus semiautomatic pistols. food for thought. caveat, see my #3 below.

 
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age-old handgun debate #2:
I have seen many animals smaller and less aggressive than humans survive multiple hits from a 22.
indeed true, but many predators survive gunshots of many calibers, even from the trained hands of hunters, police and soldiers. if we are discussing a normal law-abiding civilian being attacked, should we consider it required for the attacker being drt or sufficient if the attacker is wounded enough for the victim to get away “off the x?” and as you indicated if one is physically (me: and also financially) capable of only owning and practicing sufficiently with a 22lr handgun then isn’t it a decent enough choice? maybe a lowly 22lr handgun will be a gateway to a larger caliber? and if it isn’t then at least one is left with a practiced firearm at hand. cheers.
 
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age-old handgun debate #3: a 22lr revolver is better than a 22lr semiauto pistol for defense.
well, i have run a ruger lcr 22lr and a ruger sr22 back to back more than once with several 100-round sleeves of top-shelf cci minimag ammo to answer this question. i shoot double taps very fast to expend the cylinder or mags into the target, because a hornet swarm is my rimfire defensive tactic. my own winner is the sr22 and so i do carry it. the lcr has a long trigger pull that if short-stroked (easy to do in rapid fire) locks the cylinder. the sr22 runs rapidly, as fast as i can depress the trigger, like a sewing machine. and, with the lcr, by 3-4 cylinders my accuracy drops because my shooting hand cries uncle. please try your own test, ymmv.
 
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age-old handgun debate #2:

indeed true, but many predators survive gunshots of many calibers, even from the trained hands of hunters, police and soldiers. if we are discussing a normal law-abiding civilian being attacked, should we consider it required for the attacker being drt or sufficient if the attacker is wounded enough for the victim to get away “off the x?” and as you indicated if one is physically (me: and also financially) capable of only owning and practicing sufficiently with a 22lr handgun then isn’t it a decent enough choice? maybe a lowly 22lr handgun will be a gateway to a larger caliber? and if it isn’t then at least one is left with a practiced firearm at hand. cheers.
No matter the point of view, a 22 LR will not be as effective as a more powerful round for defensive use, and the odds of a failure to stop a threat go up exponentially when using any underpowered round, and/or rounds that just aren't designed for the task. An attack is an attack, whether the victim is a law abiding citizen or a tier 1 commando. The idea of using a 22 LR "to wound an attacker and get off the x" as a course of action is tactically unsound. This plan involves the assumption of what the attacker(s) will do to react to being wounded with a 22. The attacker(s) may respond by shooting you back, and it may be with a superior caliber. People have performed some very heroic (or barbaric, depending on whose team they were on) deeds after being wounded, sometimes fatally. I have seen people respond with unbelievable levels of violence while bleeding to death. Due to your personal situation, a 22 is what you got to work with. It will probably be more effective than kung fu, so that makes it a better choice than no gun. That being said, as wih any handgun, train to fire it as quickly and accurately as possible, and remember it holds more than 1 round for a reason, so plan accordingly.
 
indeed true, but many predators survive gunshots of many calibers, even from the trained hands of hunters, police and soldiers. if we are discussing a normal law-abiding civilian being attacked, should we consider it required for the attacker being drt or sufficient if the attacker is wounded enough for the victim to get away “off the x?”
I don't think that it is a good idea to assume that an escape route is created simply by being a normal law-abiding citizen who shoots at someone. Being off the first "X" creates the next X, and on and on. The path to escape may be behind the attacker, meaning that you have to go through or over him (or them). Even if that is not the case, moving in the direction of any other point of the compass does not render one out of danger. Pepper spray is a distraction device. Using a firearm as a distraction device that potentially offers a better outcome is not really an ideal strategy in a lethal threat encounter against a dangerous predator, IMHO.
 
We can debate the cons of rimfire but if that's what you regularly practice with, your chances of hitting your target are better.
I'm not as good with my Glock G32 (.357sig) as I used to be (getting older). I have a 9mm conversion barrel but my Shield EZ 380 is almost like a rimfire in terms of felt recoil. So I'm starting to think the lower capacity lower energy .380 single stack might be the better choice in a high stress situation.
The reason I have an EZ 380 is I though my wife might take a liking to it. She didn't. So if your wife has a reliable autoloading pistol she likes and uses regularly, just be happy...
 
i am not saying that a 22lr handgun is “the” best choice. i am saying that it is a decent choice under the circumstances that i described. if you are a cop, soldier, hunter, north country guide or rub up against the criminal justice world by ignorance, design or habit, then a 22lr handgun isn’t for you. if you on thr you are likely a gun guy. and if you have the money & physical ability to ramp up the power level, then a range of centerfire handguns is rightfully on your menu. what if you are, say, a middleaged suburban lady who discovered that she likes and is good with a keltec p17? do you tell her to move on asap or encourage her to now become proficient with the p17? and if her p17 later becomes her necessary gateway to something bigger, isn’t that nice too?

by definition a threatened civilian’s first task is to be out of danger, which can, but does not necessarily require, killing the criminal. please ask a prosecutor if you believe otherwise. i am over the hill now but uncle sam taught me in 1972 that when ambushed my immediate goal is to get off the x. most criminals attack targets of opportunity who are perceived to be weak. if i can confidently turn the tables by putting some well placed, immediately lethal or not, minimags into a surprised bad guy’s guts i have that chance to egress. indeed hitting with “better” centerfire rounds gives me way more of a chance but only if i have spent greater time, money and effort to become proficient enough to hit. missing with any round helps nothing.

we all mostly need a car in america. not everyone who lives in snow country drives a four wheel drive suv. some folks who live far from snow, or sand, drive a 4wd. not everyone who drives a 4wd knows how to do so. regardless of what you drive, being smart, practiced, and knowing both your limits and the environment in which you drive, counts for more, i wager. analogous to a handgun, i wager too.

well, this is my view. sorry to beat a dead horse. cheers and respect to all.
 
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