New female CCW shooter

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I see your point there, but if she's used to the M9s she handled in training and quals, it's unlikely that the rental guns are any more thrashed than those!
 
Seems to be the question of "Is it better to commit to something you are already familiar with, or is it better to become familiar with something you can more comfortably commit to?"
 
TimSr said:
Seems to be the question of "Is it better to commit to something you are already familiar with, or is it better to become familiar with something you can more comfortably commit to?"
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If she is issued a gun, and required to carry it, she will be required to commit to it, no matter what she "likes".

If she just wants to have her own gun, and is confident that her own gun will not hinder her learning of the use of an M9, then doors open up to her. If she is only concerned about her familiarity with her issued gun, and views buying one of her own as a way to learn and nothing more really, then going with a different model makes little sense.

It's a matter of what she is trying to achieve by buying a gun, and if she has any concerns that owning a different model than she is issued will hinder her learning.

Good of the OP to guide her, but she needs to be honest with herself about what she is capable of, and what she is INTERESTED in, before she makes a choice. Only she can answer that.
 
I think those not in the military are way over-estimating how much she'll be using the "issue" M9. She might shoot it once per year to qualify. Then again, probably not, maybe every other year or so and qual on the M4 some as well. And the qual is just putting 30 rounds down range at either full size paper silhouettes at 25m or at full size pop ups from 7-30m (a hit anywhere counts). She isn't likely to get any useful training on the pistol from the Army...ever.

She will be way more likely to use a personal gun in self-defense than her issue M9 in combat so she should get a gun that works best for her. If she gets deployed, she'll be able to dry-fire the snot out of the M9 if she wants to then.
 
strambo said:
I think those not in the military are way over-estimating how much she'll be using the "issue" M9. She might shoot it once per year to qualify. Then again, probably not, maybe every other year or so and qual on the M4 some as well. And the qual is just putting 30 rounds down range at either full size paper silhouettes at 25m or at full size pop ups from 7-30m (a hit anywhere counts). She isn't likely to get any useful training on the pistol from the Army...ever.

She will be way more likely to use a personal gun in self-defense than her issue M9 in combat so she should get a gun that works best for her. If she gets deployed, she'll be able to dry-fire the snot out of the M9 if she wants to then.
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While you are probably correct about little to no use or training with the M9, I still disagree with the overall logic here. If she is going to be handed a potentially lethal weapon as an issues sidearm, she really kind of owes it to herself and fellow soldiers/engineers to be familiar and proficient with that gun. Personally, I would not want to be around someone armed with a gun who doesn't know what they are doing. It happens to me every time I go shooting with my dad, and it makes me really uncomfortable, as he almost expects me to act like a range officer for him.

I will never advocate for disregard of shooting skills with a particular firearm, or dismiss the need for proficiency with a particular firearm, if it is part of your everyday life whether that be as an issued weapon, or a concealed personal gun. If you use a gun at all, you should be proficient with it.

This brings me back to a point I made earlier. This statement in the OP

She expressed interest in getting a Beretta 92FS/M9 since that would be her issued duty weapon and she wants to be familiar with it. But I'm thinking perhaps not, since she wants a to concealed carry.
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tells me she really needs two guns, or a willingness to carry a big gun concealed. She has already expressed a desire to get familiar with an M9, so I think it would be wise to foster that desire. Is it allowable for her to request more range time and ammunition to practice more extensively with her issue gun? I'm unfamiliar how that type of a situation would be handled by the military. If so, she may be able to become quite proficient with an M9 without buying one, which would be a benefit as it isn't a stellar concealed carry gun.

If that question is answered, it may help her make a better decision.

If more military training and range time isn't really an option, then that brings us back to potentially buying a 92/M9, and a different gun for carry.

JMO
 
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guyfromohio

I'm curious.... I wonder how many people advocating gun rental have actually rented guns....
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I have. Years ago I rented the M1911A1 that I shot for my CHL class because if I shot the course with a semiautomatic I could carry anything. If one shoots the class with a revolver, that's all one can carry. I own and carry revolvers exclusively these days, but I wanted the option. (After carrying an M1911A1 for 16 years in the Army, I wasn't going out on a limb with the .45.)
 
guyfromohio said:
I'm curious.... I wonder how many people advocating gun rental have actually rented guns....
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I have, too. The range that I was a member at had a modest fleet. When I decided I wanted to try a polymer-framed pistol, I shot every 9mm and .45acp they had. When my wife bought a LC9 and discovered how much she hated it, she immediately shot every 9mm in the fleet. The difference was I didn't buy a gun I hated...
 
460Kodiak, I'm recommending she get a gun with the same manual of arms as an M9 like the PX4 or similar. She doesn't need a big honkin M9 of her own to get really good with a very similar and better suited pistol and have 99% of that transfer to her M9.

I've never owned one but I can assure you I'm not letting any of my fellow soldiers down by not having a personal one to train and practice on...I train them! I just did an Army M9 training class and half day range session this month.
 
strambo said:
460Kodiak, I'm recommending she get a gun with the same manual of arms as an M9 like the PX4 or similar. She doesn't need a big honkin M9 of her own to get really good with a very similar and better suited pistol and have 99% of that transfer to her M9.

I've never owned one but I can assure you I'm not letting any of my fellow soldiers down by not having a personal one to train and practice on...I train them! I just did an Army M9 training class and half day range session this month.
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Fair enough and I do see your point about the same manual of arms. That would likely get her the familiarity she needs.

I am curious though, about what I said about requesting more training if she wants it. Are soldiers allowed to do that or are soldiers allocated s certain amount of time and practice ammo? Budgets are always an issue in the fed. Sounds like you're the man to ask.
 
460Kodiak said:
Fair enough and I do see your point about the same manual of arms. That would likely get her the familiarity she needs.

I am curious though, about what I said about requesting more training if she wants it. Are soldiers allowed to do that or are soldiers allocated s certain amount of time and practice ammo? Budgets are always an issue in the fed. Sounds like you're the man to ask.
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Sadly, no. The Army doesn't care about handguns, #1 I'd be shocked if anyone in her unit is qualified to train anyone on handguns. #2, a unit will only have the ammo it gets for a specific training event and it (and all brass) gets drawn and turned back in to the ammo supply point (a PITA). #3, the training schedule is packed, there is so much stuff that has to be done from tactical training to mandatory briefs on resiliency, EO and sexual harassment.

Unfortunately, since 1992 and with 2 deployments issued an M9 I have only ever received 1 class on the M9 and I don't count that as training because the instructor just prattled on about the physical characteristics of the pistol, he didn't teach us how to shoot it and we didn't practice anything. I've never shot a 9mm round in training (unless I was running it)...just quals.

The only way to get M9 training is to request more M9 ammo than you need for quals (hope you get it) or do what my unit did this month, qual everyone on M4s and decide to not qual with the M9 at all and use all the ammo (all 60rds each :rolleyes: ) for training drills instead. That was this year, maybe next year they will do the same, but will they have a qualified instructor? If not, they'll just punch holes in paper at 25m for the qual like everyone else and that's not training.

This I why I have spent countless hours and tens of thousands of dollars on my own training over many years to fill in the gaps left by the Army, primarily handguns and H2H combat.

That said, the Army is extremely effective in combat, our soldiers and leaders know how to shoot, move and communicate in battle as well as integrate fires and work with combined arms (armor etc.) so handguns and H2H really isn't important in the grand scheme of things...it was just important to me.
 
I have rented handguns at ranges, and I do recommend that folks do the same if they don't know what they want before gun shopping. I don't rent any more, since I have plenty of choices in my own gun vault. If I go shooting with someone who wants to try some different guns before buying, I'm happy to bring a selection and let 'em try some. Isn't that what most of us do?
 
I would echo the recommendations for a Beretta M9A1 or 84. Going the gun rental route is overrated especially for someone who is familiar with the M9.
 
Strambo, thanks for the info. I found it informative and disturbing at the same time. I know rifles are the most relevant weapon in an infantry fight, but it seems Uncle Sam isn't really training our troops in some aspects as much as it should. Though our military kicks ass, so who am I to judge?
 
I have

I have advocated trying rental guns at a gun range before and have done it myself. 1 box of ammo was all it took for me to rule out a S&W Shield. Another try with a BERETTA Storm convinced me that it is a soft recoiling gun that is quite useable. Another rental of a SPRINGFIELD ARMORY XD9 led me to purchase one.

Taking a tactical shooting course first with a borrowed or rental gun might prove useful. Until I went into law enforcement, I did not have a reference method to compare guns. After going through the academy and having a regular qualification drill, I have found it easiest to compare guns by firing that drill over and over with different guns.

Jim
 
I rented guns before choosing my first...still made a crappy choice but that was on me. If I would have just picked what I liked best by feel and target results and not let my head over-rule that, I would still own a Sig P220. Instead I got a chronically unreliable Para P13. On paper it was a heck of a handgun though...
 
Just to echo what's been said above:

Let her try a bunch of stuff at the range and see what she likes. We took my best friend's wife to the range and the guy behind the counter charged her to rent one gun and let her use everything they had in the place. She ended up liking a full-sized 1911 the best, because the grip wasn't too thick for her and the weight of metal made the recoil very manageable. And the trigger on it meant she was hitting the black, which is great for the ego on a new shooter! She disliked how smaller, lighter guns felt like they kicked harder.
 
tkopp said:
We took my best friend's wife to the range and the guy behind the counter charged her to rent one gun and let her use everything they had in the place. She ended up liking a full-sized 1911 the best, because the grip wasn't too thick for her and the weight of metal made the recoil very manageable..
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This has been my experience with most women new to shooting, when it comes to auto-loaders. The thinness of the grips fits their hands well and the recoil is not as sharp as many smaller/lighter guns firing lesser calibers. Most also seem to prefer small .38 special revolvers to auto-loaders because of their simplicity.
 
I have rented guns before. It helped me rule out .357 in a lightweight snubby and a Ruger LC9 (old model). If you have time and patience you could probably buy and sell a gun for about the same loss as renting one.
 
I have to agree, the 92 compact is a nice choice. It also have a rail, so you could add a flashlight/laser to it if desired. That's why I bought one. Although, mine is an Inox with white pearl grips. Not I just need to powder coat the controls gold, and it'll be awesome.

And I have to agree about the shield too. After owning one in 9mm, it's not a very accurate gun. The Kahr PM9 is way better, and smaller to boot!
 
I encountered this problem a few years ago, my wife shot single action pistols in one type of competition and a 1911 in 2 others. She opted for a baby glock for carry. It has no safeties to forget about, if it is every needed (and when your anal is so tight you cannot pass a sewing needle through it) you most likely will forget the safeties. Just keep it simple. P.s she has beheaded several rattlesnakes with.
 
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