S&W M&P “All Metal” Pistols

It's interesting. Just last week I was lamenting the passing of their 2nd/3rd generation autos. SIG also has a metal version of their 320. It seems we're coming full circle.

I have enough 9MMs.

Some of us are still carrying and shooting the Wonder Nines and what I find most interesting is that the ergonomics of the S&W polymer pistols is still the same as in the first Wonder Nines.

Here is a Shield on top of the first factory compact 9mm, the S&W 469. The top of the slide and the backstraps were aligned for the picture and notice how all the key dimensions still align.



The metal framed 469 is only a few ounces heavier (just empty magazines) than my Shield 2.0 9mm but was a double stack so 15-17 rounds.

It would be interesting if this becomes the norm 10-20 years from now. I see strikers staying for sure, but if the preference leans towards metal that would be very unexpected, seeing how much we used to see polymer framed .40 cal pistols as the end of history for handguns.

If they're aluminum (or alloys of aluminum), I'll stick to plastic.

I'd rather have plastic with a steel chassis than aluminum anything for a pistol.

And yes, coming full circle, to keep selling them.

When I first heard of this I thought how nice an all steel M&P would be. Well, that ain't here yet. The frame is aluminum, and doesn't flip my switch for the extra money. IMHO the M&P is the best of the plastic fantastics but you all know what is said about opinions. Changing from plastic to aluminum is not enough of an up grade to get me to dig deeper into my pocket.

Finally, a M&P with a "soul".

All metal S&W pistols are not a new thing.

Night....good lookin 4006...never had one...good shooter?

doubleh said:

When I first heard of this I thought how nice an all steel M&P would be. Well, that ain't here yet. The frame is aluminum, and doesn't flip my switch for the extra money. IMHO the M&P is the best of the plastic fantastics but you all know what is said about opinions. Changing from plastic to aluminum is not enough of an up grade to get me to dig deeper into my pocket.

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My S&W 59 and my 469 both have an aluminum alloy frame and are still working jess fine after 47 & 39 years of use. I did change out the steel barrel of the 59 recently, not because it was shot out but because the stupid little steel semicircular shelf the recoil spring seats in had gotten worn. And IIRC the frame on my Sig P220 45acp is also aluminum and while it's newer than my S&W Wonder Nines has still served me well for over two decades. My all metal S&W and all metal SIG P series still get far more WalkAbout than the Shield 2.0 9mm or 2.0 45acp and my Aluminum frame P239 gets carried more than my similar caliber and capacity polymer framed Shield, Star UltraStar, Walther PPS M2 or CCP M2.

To me the advantage is replaceable grip panels.

The Night Rider said:

All metal S&W pistols are not a new thing.

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They're not but what is new is metal framed striker fired

Heir Kommt Die Sonne said:

They're not but what is new is metal framed striker fired

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Not really. I have lots of metal framed striker fired pistols and the oldest I still shoot regularly is 111 years old now.









The newest of the ones shown is my Bernardelli 7.65 made in 1952 while the Savage 1907 was made in 1913.

I think most of the metal versions of polymer guns are targeted at competitive shooters where the weight of the gun is an advantage (lower perceived recoil, less disruption of the sights/dot, faster and more accurate follow up shots, etc) and they don’t care about having to carry around a heavier gun in the holster. There are already weighted parts for the polymer guns, but having a metal frame usually results in more weight and a better distribution of that weight.

I see this as striker fired manufacturers trying to get a design to compete against the CZ guns which have held a major share of the guns used in non-race gun classes (like USPSA Carry Optics).

I got the opportunity to shoot a Walther PDP steel frame and it was a really great shooter, even compared to my full sized (polymer) PDP with brass weights.

jar said:

Not really. I have lots of metal framed striker fired pistols and the oldest I still shoot regularly is 111 years old now.

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The newest of the ones shown is my Bernardelli 7.65 made in 1952 while the Savage 1907 was made in 1913.

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True, if you wanted to get technical. But I mean the Glock pattern and it's descendants.

Heir Kommt Die Sonne said:

True, if you wanted to get technical. But I mean the Glock pattern and it's descendants.

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What in the world is unique about "a Glock pattern'?

It wasn't the first striker, or first polymer framed firearm or even polymer framed pistol. It wasn't the first to use a two stage trigger or a separate sear release.

It was cheap.

It was extremely well marketed.

But that's about it.

I have a soft spot for a lot of the classic STEEL framed pistols. Never cared for anything with an aluminum alloy frame. They are ugly IMO, they are never the same color as the steel slide and aluminum, the "coating scratches and peels off as the aluminum as they get older and they are weaker requiring a thicker frame than steel. They have also proven to have a significantly reduced life expectancy compared to steel.

Plastic does everything aluminum does and does it better as well as cheaper. If not steel, make mine plastic. It can be made just as trim as steel, lasts just as long, if not longer than steel, weighs less, and costs less. And IMO looks better than aluminum.

You can make an argument that a heavier steel framed gun is easier to shoot, but aluminum is within 1-2 ounces of plastic. You don't get the weight advantage with aluminum.

The Smith metal gun weighs 30 oz. The same gun in plastic is 29 oz.

doubleh said:

The frame is aluminum, and doesn't flip my switch for the extra money

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On top of that, metal -- steel -- comes with a hammer. I know, I know, but I'm hardwired that way.

Heir Kommt Die Sonne said:

They're not but what is new is metal framed striker fired

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Walther has had that covered for years. "Real" metal.

IMO this has little to do with customer preference and more to do with long term business survival. The west is currently trending towards restricting the use of oil for anything. Companies that rely on plastics will need to adjust. Firearm manufacturers seem to be getting ahead of the curve.
In a generation or two we'll probably have a bunch of old farts on the interwebs bemoaning the fact that there are hardly any polymer guns being made.....

jar said:

Some of us are still carrying and shooting the Wonder Nines and what I find most interesting is that the ergonomics of the S&W polymer pistols is still the same as in the first Wonder Nines.

Here is a Shield on top of the first factory compact 9mm, the S&W 469. The top of the slide and the backstraps were aligned for the picture and notice how all the key dimensions still align.

View attachment 1202784

The metal framed 469 is only a few ounces heavier (just empty magazines) than my Shield 2.0 9mm but was a double stack so 15-17 rounds.

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One of my favorite pics on THR. The more things change, the more they stay the same.

Ridgerunner665 said:

If they're aluminum (or alloys of aluminum), I'll stick to plastic.

I'd rather have plastic with a steel chassis than aluminum anything for a pistol.

And yes, coming full circle, to keep selling them.

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I had to post this in response ….

I've shot the metal M&P. It's a great shooting gun.

CraigC said:

To me the advantage is replaceable grip panels.

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Yep.
Smith IMO, missed the boat on this product by not having swappable grips.
Those Sig AXG, one can buy wood, g10, carbon fiber, brass, alloy and even steel grips.

I had the 5in competitor version of this pistol, it was a major disappointment.