Striker Fired: What am I Missing?
- Thread starter Redcoat3340
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Old Dog
Member
Not necessarily. There is such a thing as a "bad trigger," and those of us that know this don't use it as an excuse for how we perform on the range. We'll either get rid of the gun or try to improve the trigger.
Why accept inferior mechanisms or mediocrity? Trying to achieve positive results on one's targets using a pistol with a crappy trigger is just an exercise in futility. I'm sorry, but if you've had the pleasure of experiencing a good Wilson, Brown or Baer trigger, and then tell me that you consistently can match groups from those pistols with your Glock 26, Springfield XD or Ruger P90, please, bring me some of what you're smoking.
That would be one of the following: ignorance. denial, or maybe some jealousyOh he often claims they are just as good as 1911 triggers..
Not real sure
Old Dog
Member
Yep, sorry, I'm not gonna be driving a 2004 Ford Focus after I've been driving the wife's Lexus ES.
Even among striker-fired pistols, any Glock trigger doesn't hold a candle to the triggers on the top-end SIG P-320s (X Series, AXG, 320 Max) or Walther PDP (Pros, Match series). Even the HK VP9 has a easily detectible better trigger than a Glock.
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I can adapt to any trigger, so none of them are bad to me. I own every type of trigger there is, and have been collecting handguns since 1973, and don’t believe in getting rid of anything. I learn to shoot them all. I own a few 1911’s, and know what a great single action trigger is. Please stop coming across like an ignoramus. What you’re saying is you can only shoot certain guns well, and run from any challenge to master different triggers. lol, if it’s not a Wilson, Brown, or Baer you can’t shoot. I’m interested in defensive shooting, and have total confidence that I can use any of my many handguns to get the job done. You can’t shoot, because you need your so called improved trigger. Wow what a sissy you are.
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Alllen Bundy
Member
I'm not a trigger connoisseur, but when a trigger feels gritty or erratic, sump'n ain't right and it usually doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out the cause. Case in point. The Sig P365 series has a reputation for gritty triggers right out of the box that smooth out a bit with use. The triggers in my P365 and P365XL felt completely different, even though they use the identical FCU and I had the curved trigger installed in both of them. The P365 trigger felt gritty, but the P365XL trigger had a grab and slip chattering action.
The cause was cost cutting by Sig. The trigger linkage bar is a piece of stamped steel and Sig used the very ROUGH edge of the stamping to contact the sear and striker safety lever. Sig never bothered to polish the contact point on the trigger linkage bar. Less than 5 minutes of hand polishing of this contact point and both triggers are as smooth as can be and the triggers feel nearly identical.
Say whatever you like about how the Sig trigger operates, but with only a few minutes of work at least the trigger can be very smooth. I'm sure that you will find similar issues with other mass produced pistols if you take the time to look carefully.
The cause was cost cutting by Sig. The trigger linkage bar is a piece of stamped steel and Sig used the very ROUGH edge of the stamping to contact the sear and striker safety lever. Sig never bothered to polish the contact point on the trigger linkage bar. Less than 5 minutes of hand polishing of this contact point and both triggers are as smooth as can be and the triggers feel nearly identical.
Say whatever you like about how the Sig trigger operates, but with only a few minutes of work at least the trigger can be very smooth. I'm sure that you will find similar issues with other mass produced pistols if you take the time to look carefully.
I don’t own a Sig P365 or P365XL but have rented both of them. The 365 had the curved trigger, and the 365XL had the flat trigger. They both seemed gritty to me, but for defensive purpose they were acceptable. I’m not a trigger snob, not everything has to be a custom 1911 fine honed trigger job for me.
vanfunk
Member
I love both of these guns. I shoot both guns, a lot. One I shoot ok, the other I shoot well. I am trying to shoot one better, really hard. The other just shoots. I don’t understand why, by some definitions promulgated, that I am a bad shooter because I shoot the 1911 better than the Glock.
Well, I wanted to attach photos of targets but for some reason, that function is not working. I’m sure that means that I am a bad forum member!
The guns I am referring to are a Gen 5 Glock 17 and a Nighthawk Combat Special.
Well, I wanted to attach photos of targets but for some reason, that function is not working. I’m sure that means that I am a bad forum member!
The guns I am referring to are a Gen 5 Glock 17 and a Nighthawk Combat Special.
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I enjoy 1911’s and Glocks, I guess I’m just a real handgun lover. It’s like when I was a kid I could listen to Led Zeppelin, and 5 minutes later Johnny Cash. I have always had a wide diversity in handguns and music.I love both of these guns. I shoot both guns, a lot. One I shoot ok, the other I shoot well. I am trying to shoot one better, really hard. The other just shoots. I don’t understand why, by some definitions promulgated, that I am a bad shooter because I shoot the 1911 better than the Glock.
Well, I wanted to attach photos of targets but for some reason, that function is not working. I’m sure that means that I am a bad forum member!
The guns I am referring too are a Gen 5 Glock 17 and a Nighthawk Combat Special.
trackskippy
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I know you have a bunch of "nice" guns, all very pretty. They take pretty pics, but funny how none of them look like they have ever been shot or used, which seems to be a pretty common thing when you see people post up pics of their stuff.
Mine are, but then again, mine are all factory stock triggers, either way. I don't waste money on crutches trying to buy my skill.Oh he often claims they are just as good as 1911 triggers..
I quit smoking everything decades ago. That, and getting into shape and maintaining that, were two of the best things I did too.
Let me ask why factory stock triggers are so difficult for people to shoot well with? None I can remember shooing in the past many decades have been a problem to shoot well with and there was no need to have to fiddle with them. So what is it for what seems to be a lot of shooters, that they feel they cant shoot well with them?
Let me hazard a guess here. They don't shoot enough. They don't handle their guns enough. They don't shoot enough. They don't dry fire enough. They don't shoot enough. They are out of shape and don't maintain the important things needed to be able to shoot well. Hows that for a couple? I wasn't stuttering either.
LOL. Is hubris your middle name? While you take all those pretty pics, I actually shoot most all of my guns, all the time. Lets see some of yours with the heavy hoster and use wear on them and how well you do with them.
If all the people who complain about triggers actually got out and exercised all the muscles their bodies use to shoot, Im betting there would be a lot less complaints all around. Typing and snapping pics doesn't do crap to improve finger strength and the all around muscle tone needed to shoot well.
And again, the comparisons need to be on an even keel. Why is it people always want to compare "top end" guns to box stock factory guns to make their points? I have a run of the mill SIG P320XC and its shoot very much the same as any of my Glocks or other guns. So compare that SIG to the one you want to compare it to. Is it trash like the Glocks? Is my P226 in the same boat? Beretta 92, HP, or any of the others?
These are the guns I shot the other day. A PSA 10.5" AR, a Gen 5 Glock 26, and a Colt Combat Commander in 9mm. I shoot a decent mix of all sorts of stuff two or three times a week, but since I carry and use Glocks, they get out every time.
The targets above were shot with all three guns (the AR was snap shots at 50 yards), and most of that was either from a holster or a ready with the Glock and from a ready with the 1911 as I didn't have a holster along for it. Most all of the handgun rounds were at least"doubles", and some were triples. And about half of all those were fired while I was moving off line as I shot and back and forth between the targets.
You tell me which ones were shot with the Colt and which ones were shot with the Glock.
The bullseye targets below were shot offhand at 10 yards. I was double checking the zero on the Glocks dot after checking its torque, and then shot the Colt to see how Id do without my normal "top focal" corrected glasses. The Colt has the factory 1911 sights, not the larger sights you normally see today, and all I see with them without correction is an orange blur. Throw out the outliers due to that, and what you see in the black is normally what you would see if I could "see".
These were shot with guns with factory triggers. The DA guns were shot DAO. As best as I can remember, all were shot from around 10 yards.
There were singles from a low ready...
Same here but with some doubles mixed in...
My whole point here all along has been, the factory triggers of any of them are normally not any problem to shoot well with, right out of the box. The fact "you" cant shoot well with one, isn't the fault of the gun.
If spending the money buying a crutch to help you shoot works for you, great. The problem there is, now you have to buy them for everything you have, and just continue to make the problem worse. Its like going to the eye doc every year and he tells you you need stronger and stronger lenses, just making your eyes weaker and weaker, and needing more and more.
The clue there is "your muscles" needed to maintain both.
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I shoot often. I shoot matches. I take care of my stuff.
Next time you’re in the SE PA area, I’ll be happy school you. You can even try out some nice triggers in the process.
420Stainless
Member
I have a fondness for the feel of hammer fired designs and I like a safety on a carry pistol. I am not skilled enough to see a practical difference in performance just due to the difference in feel though. Really happy with the Ruger Max 9 striker fired, but pretty sure I’d like any micro 9 in equivalent size and capacity. Striker fired seems to be the common design feature in the micro 9 game.
Like I said, come to a match sometime. I’m always up for free entertainment.
I carry a SA Hellcat most days. I don’t carry a competition pistol. Your argument is asinine.
420Stainless
Member
Edit: didn’t mean to double post. Didn’t think my first attempt posted.
You could be missing out on a good selection of micro nines if that niche appeals to you. Otherwise I’m not sure it matters to average shooters. I prefer the feel and more commonly included manual safety option of hammer fired, but can’t see a difference in performance at my intermediate skill level. Happy with my Max 9 performance at the range.
You could be missing out on a good selection of micro nines if that niche appeals to you. Otherwise I’m not sure it matters to average shooters. I prefer the feel and more commonly included manual safety option of hammer fired, but can’t see a difference in performance at my intermediate skill level. Happy with my Max 9 performance at the range.
Is all you do is photo bomb all these gun sites with expensive guns that look brand new like they have never been shot. We can google and see the same photos. I have no doubt I can out shoot you with a stock Glock trigger, up against any one of your expensive handguns of your choosing. I have shot Glock stock triggers 3 times a week for years. Now that I’m 70 I don’t shoot as much anymore, because I have other hobbies, but my Glock shooting skills are still good.
trackskippy
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LOL. So does that mean no picks of an actual hard use gun then.
I take care of my stuff too, contrary to what you're often told by a lot of people around here, but guns that get used, show use, hard use guns even more, no matter how well you rub up on them. Just no way around that.
Ive always competed in the past with a pistol that duplicated the box stock pistol that I might be carrying at the moment. Im not a "gamer". I don't wear and use all the "crutch" gear. I just try to get things as close to reality as things might allow and use the actual gear and guns I would normally use.
Up until about 6 months ago I carried a box stock 17 every day. These days, its a 45, since I cant get a 17MOS.
If you want to go to school, come on down to the slums and see how well you shoot once you cant shoot with your fancy tuned up "high end" game stuff. Always something new to learn.
And if you cant shoot the whole course with what you carry, we can play one of my favorite old games too, where you throw everyone's gun in a pile under a box and you get to reach in and grab one and have to shoot with what you get, as long as its not yours. Always entertaining. The whining that is.
I don’t shoot Glocks that often, so maybe so. I own a few of them, but they aren’t my thing. I do feel I’m adequate with them, but that’s it.
I’ve got six figures worth of handguns. I’m not toting a bunch of Glocks to the range and I don’t shoot competitively with them either.
If all we’re comparing are Glock skills, than maybe I need to shoot them a bit more when I have time. I’ve been shooting handguns 35+ years, so while I’m not your age, I do have some experience behind a trigger.
Lmao! I don’t need to show “hard use” handguns or targets. I’m very secure in my shooting ability, thank you.LOL. So does that mean no picks of an actual hard use gun then.
I’ve got hundreds of handguns, including the finest in the world from both a collectable standpoint and a competition standpoint. I keep them on separate racks in my gun room.
I shoot often and likely put more rounds downrange than you do. Due to sheer volume. I don’t put 10,000 rounds a year through any one gun in particular. However, I feel I’m quite proficient with many platforms.
Does posting targets and “hard use” guns make you some sort of tough guy?
vanfunk
Member
Please don’t get this thread locked, guys. This isn’t or shouldn’t be personal. We can and should be able to debate the relative merits of these designs. For me, until this thread, I had actually never encountered a single enthusiast who described the Glock trigger as “good.” Even among those who would agree that the design is sound, and that there’s no disputing the continued relevance of the Glock design and function, all those I know felt that the trigger was something that had to be “overcome.”
Notwithstanding the excellent counterpoints in this thread, I am still of a mind to feel that the trigger works against me, and not with me. It’s not a matter of being “stronger,” or “shooting more” (jeez, is 30k rounds a year not enough?). Given equal ammo, and time, no doubt I will get better shooting my Glocks, as is my determined hope. It is also true, of the same argument, that I will so too get better shooting my 1911s and revolvers. Therefore, for me, the Glock trigger makes it harder to shoot well. Other, newer striker designs like the Walther PDP, HK VP9 and CZ P10 are lighter and have a more defined break, so for me they are more accurate in my hands.
Notwithstanding the excellent counterpoints in this thread, I am still of a mind to feel that the trigger works against me, and not with me. It’s not a matter of being “stronger,” or “shooting more” (jeez, is 30k rounds a year not enough?). Given equal ammo, and time, no doubt I will get better shooting my Glocks, as is my determined hope. It is also true, of the same argument, that I will so too get better shooting my 1911s and revolvers. Therefore, for me, the Glock trigger makes it harder to shoot well. Other, newer striker designs like the Walther PDP, HK VP9 and CZ P10 are lighter and have a more defined break, so for me they are more accurate in my hands.
You have seemingly some great taste in handguns. Try a Strike One Ergal sometime. I actually feel they have the finest stock striker trigger on the market. Even better than the Dynamic trigger on my Walther Black Tie or PDP SF Match.
Those are great, but the Ergal is better. Breaks crisply at about two pounds, short and easily heard reset, etc
Not to mention the super low bore axis. Probably the lowest bore axis of any locked breech semi auto.
vanfunk
Member
Thands bc, I do find that an intriguing pistol and something different. My LGS has the “basic” Strike One but not the Ergal. I’ll ask the gun buyer in the store if he can get one in. I like to see and handle firearms in person before committing to a purchase but it’s not always possible with the rare stuff.
Completely different than the standard polymer Strike One. Totally different trigger in both feel and structure and the entire gun feels so much more precise being all metal.
I actually didn’t care for the standard Stike One I had or even the Salient modified version. I have three of the Ergals and they are likely my favorite strikers.
I love the quality and accuracy of the steel Walthers, but I prefer the design of the Ergal
By all means enjoy your 6 figures worth of handguns. But don't belittle people that spent several thousand on ammo over the years to become very proficient with the stock Glock trigger. In a self-defense situation that is going to pay off big time.
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By all means enjoy what you shoot well, but don't belittle people that have spent several thousands of dollars on ammo over the years to become proficient with the stock Glock trigger. In a self-defense situation that is going to pay off big time. I personally like the Glock trigger especially the hard wall of gen 3, and strong tactile reset of Glock better than the PPQ/PDP. As for HK VP9 the reset is not as tactile as Glock, and vaguer, with more movement to get back to the wall. That being said I can still shoot those handguns well.
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