nettlle
Contributing Member
I have never annealed and just ordered my first annealer. The annealer has a timer for the the length time heat is applied to each case. How do I determine the length of time. Do I need to order temp sticks?
I have the AGS, and I run it with dual torches. It works quite well.This one
^^^ THIS ^^^No color change games - use tempilaq.
We disagree on what should happen using the same method. I effectively neck size brass with a full length die. Most brass will not fill my chamber until the brass has been fired several times. My die is set to bump if the brass is long enough, but most isn't for a few cycles.If they're once fire and you know they're all once fired don't anneal them at all, use a collet die or neck bushing die to push them back to your favorite amount of undersize most people like -.002 of the bullets size. Never neck size only always bump the shoulder back.
If they have been fired twice or more or an unknown not number of times or mix firings anneal them to dead soft which means red hot for at least 2 seconds and then size them a FL with ball expander die.
Anything else you're just wasting time and torch fuel.
We disagree on that. You cannot neck size with a full length die. It sizes the body some. As the case enters the die it starts squeezing the body down some, which can actually move the shoulder forward before contact with the shoulder of the die. It depends on the fit of the case to the die, but the shoulder wants to go forward until the die's shoulder contacts it. Meanwhile, the FL sizer is squeezing the body of the case "sizing" it.We disagree on what should happen using the same method. I effectively neck size brass with a full length die
People oversize 30-30 so much the case datum needs to grow .022 before I touch the shoulder. I agree that the body may be sized but my point of contention wasWe disagree on that. You cannot neck size with a full length die. It sizes the body some. As the case enters the die it starts squeezing the body down some, which can actually move the shoulder forward before contact with the shoulder of the die. It depends on the fit of the case to the die, but the shoulder wants to go forward until the die's shoulder contacts it. Meanwhile, the FL sizer is squeezing the body of the case "sizing" it.
My guess is you have the die adjusted so it just touches the shoulder, keeping it at bay, or eventually you would have the same issue as neck sizing, the cases would start getting tough to chamber as the shoulder gets too far forward.
Never neck size only always bump the shoulder back.
A lot of folks do indeed oversize (move the shoulder too far) with bottlenecked rimmed calibers like .30-30People oversize 30-30 so much
I traded a lot of range pickups of mine for 30-30 brass because like toilet paper it was just not to be had... I size everything that comes into my room after dealing with neck tension goblins from dad's brass.A lot of folks do indeed oversize (move the shoulder too far) with bottlenecked rimmed calibers like .30-30
He's basically right. At least touch the shoulder and keep it where it is on fired cases that still chamber, but most of us give it a little extra, how much depends on the application. Never more than .003 for me.Never neck size only always bump the shoulder back.
Yeah my 30-30 rcbs dies are gapped 15 thousands above the shell holder, works great.A lot of folks do indeed oversize (move the shoulder too far) with bottlenecked rimmed calibers like .30-30
I effectively neck size brass with a full length die.
You're "partial FL" sizing. No, that's not a technical term as far as I know.
True datThe body sizing squeezes the shoulder slightly forward, so if we measure it to be the same location as it went into the die, then it both moved forward when the body was squeezed and then was bumped back when the die shoulder made contact, as slight as it might have been in both directions.
Exactly.Every neck sizer is a closet full length sizer because they all will eventually have to FL size the case in order to keep using it.
A lot of reloading is about keeping the variables constant round to round. Same powder charge, same seating depth, same neck tension, etc.
For that reason alone neck sizing isn’t a good idea. The body continues to expand shot to shot to the point that it will no longer chamber, then you FL size it and reset everything. That’s a lot of case variability and ensures every reloading cycle is going to be different, from a little to a lot
FL sizing every time brings the case back to baseline EVERY time, which promotes round to round consistency and that’s good for accuracy.