What's in danger of being banned?

This thread confuses me. In the weeks before the election, there were dozens of folks posting messages reassuring us that gun control was not in the Democrats' plans ...

One things for sure, they won't be stupid enough to declare possession of what we own already illegal. Sale and transfer yes - possession no.

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I hope you're right, Kaylee. This leaves me about six weeks to get a rifle.

I have a brother and father in law that are active LEO. Both are very worried about a magazine ban. Most folks I know consider banning what they already own over the line.

My LEO brother has actually been very worried about this.

Since the moments after the elections were over, and it was determined the Democrats had taken the house, the buzz was, gun bans. With this mentality in mind, damn right there will be gun bans.

Do you fear the bureacracy that much?

waterdog

I hope you're right, Kaylee. This leaves me about six weeks to get a rifle.

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Personally, I've been putting more than I should lately in stripped receivers, AK parts kits, magazines, and so forth. By January I should have the "legal bits" of four or five ARs and two or three Cold War era AKs, and not a one of them in running condition. I know other folk who are piling up receivers betting on the same "pre-ban" cache pre-94 receivers had in the ban era.

Sucks, 'cause I'd much rather spend my toy money on really nice violin and maybe a flintlock. But thinking "worst case" I figured if I ever want a "significant arms of the US and its enemies" display on a back wall someday, better safe than sorry on the "1965-present" part of the museum.

But that's really the effect of gun bans, isn't it? Gets a heck of a lot more of out in circulation than there'd be otherwise.

By the way, if it does start coming up for a vote, be sure to mention that a lot of the toys our boys are using overseas might not be available if it weren't for us hobbyists.

Please....Pelosi can't even get a ban on handguns in her own city.

Actually, I did want to add that things are a lot better for us this time around. The balance of Congress is so close to 50-50 (with at least some of the new Dems at least mouthing RKBA like the Montana guy) and the media and 'net activism connection situation is MUCH better for us now than in '94. And even in '94, it was a pretty narrow thing yes?

Basically "plan for the worst, hope for the best" I think.

The dems will ban anything they can. Personally owned weapons are just against everything most of them believe in. I don't expect much of an attempt in the next two years, but if they can hang onto congress and then get a Democrat president on top of it, gunners are in big trouble.
The big advantage of a two party system is that it forces both major parties to try and come up with candidates that will satisfy a majority of the people. I wish the republicans would get their act together.
Marty

"Would you say "assault rifles" or "handguns" are in more danger of being banned?"

Yes, I do!

Lou629 said:

The 2A may protect our guns, but iirc the ammo isn't mentioned at all, and that could be our achillies heel.

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First my understanding in the term "arms" is similar to armament, with includes munitions. Secondly, my understanding of the Constitution is that it protects all things necessary and proper for the excercise of protected rights.

Of course my understanding of the 2A is it protects the right of the people to keep and bear arms, and to from a well regulated militia...

But with regard to AW vs. Handguns. I expect AWs to go first, but not until the next presidental election/major shooting.

Dmack...

First my understanding in the term "arms" is similar to armament, with includes munitions. Secondly, my understanding of the Constitution is that it protects all things necessary and proper for the excercise of protected rights.

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yes, agreed, but if you re-read above that line in my post i wasn't saying they'd BAN the ammo, rather that they could just make it too expensive for most of us, and they could probably do that very easily by taxing it to death. Nothing i read in the 2A would prevent that, if they tried it.

I think, as Mr. Bellmore said above, that indirect attacks are more likely. I expect a proliferation of Lautenberg amendment-like additions of otherwise unrelated pieces of legislation, and legislation touted as protecting victim's rights. The later could replace, or more likely, gut the gun manufactures' protection act and expand liability to organizations that block "reasonable" gun control. High profile bans will be introduced as distractions from the more subtle attacks. Bush is likely to sign any "reasonable" legislation that hits his desk.

They will tell us that all they want is a "reasonable " tax on ammo,,, maybe a nickle a box. IF WE ALLOW it, within three election cycles no one will be able to afford to shoot. Once they get a tax in place, it can be increased by unmonitored officials.
I do not see it as important how they attack. What I see as important is how we respond. United we might stand, divided we will certainly fall. Write, email, and phone calls, both dems and reps, all want to be re-elected. We need to hold their feet to the fire, and make them follow this one good gun law.

they're going to go after another *assault weapons* ban first. Why? They already accomplished this once.

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If they go for an outright ban, that's my speculation. Semiauto rifles and mag capacities are the easiest to chip away at, under the guise of 'reasonable restrictions'. That means that additional import restrictions and a '94 style AWB are the most logical choices.

But were I them, I'd creep in on little cat's feet prior to '08. But that doesn't mean I'd stand still; I'd just quietly arrange the proper setting.

• I'd lead off with a proposed Federal ban on 50cal rifles, just to test the waters on my ability to get things banned outright
• I'd remove the liability shields for resellers and manufacturers and let Bloomberg, Soros, and others of their ilk fund the effort to drive the supply-side of our community into extremis via a blizzard of legal actions.
• Import restrictions are a given, since they appeal to both the nationalist as well as to the Brady Bunch. I'd start with import restrictions on ammo (Barnaul, Prvi, et al.). I'd also push Treasury to ban the importation of any semiauto rifle chambered in 'non-sporting calibers' such as 7.62x39 or 5.56NATO. I'd set this up by using threatened shifts in Federal tax policy (e.g. capital gains tax rate increases) as the lever by which I get the Executive Branch to see things my way...
• I'd levy additional excise taxes upon the sale or transfer of firearms and firearms-related items (e.g. ammo and ammo components).
• I'd effectively remove the spectre of private sales by mandating a Brady background check for all transfers and by removing the state's rights to substitute a CHL for the NCIC call (using grant money offsets to make it all legal).
• I would seriously push bills mandating micro-serialization for all handguns; it rings of the pseudo-science that so impresses people while imposing a wonderful financial burden upon the firearms manufacturers
• I would restrict a great deal of private gunsmithing (e.g. no barrel changes outside of the purview of the microstamping effort, additional licensing and inspection burdens for gunsmiths).
• I'd place additional restrictions on the carriage of firearms on Federal lands.
• I'd devote a fair bit of resources at the state level to get semi-autos and/or repeating firearms restricted for lawful hunting purposes and to extend/expand upon the primitive weapons hunting allowances.

Little by little, I would work to paint lawful firearms ownership as being solely for CCW and for hunting (the two areas of relatively broad support for firearms ownership). If I could be successful in that, I could effectively set the stage for future restrictions on EBRs and normal-capacity magazines and such...

They know they can limit magazine capacity. They have already used all the emotional arguments favoring limitation on magazine capacity. Easy enough to heat back up.

AWB is a cosmetic limitation based on what scared Feinstein's congressional aide. Yes, it deliberately confused the matter. It offered seemingly technical reasons for cosmetic limitations. Again, it worked and can be heated back up as needed.

The latest thrust out there is on centerfired ammo. It will be portrayed as "sniper ammo" for which no "reasonable" citizen as need. Once centerfire limitations are in place they can be expanded to handguns. Early on we can expect a limitation on "pointy" centerfired ammo. Can't penetrate LE armor can it. Later we can expect velocity limitations on shoulder fired ammo. CF limitations can be combined with taxes, registration of ammo, micro identification, etc into a fine package of obstruction and prohibition.

I don't think congress will be successful until Democrats run the table in 08 or later. In any case look for an increasingly prominent public role for Rebecca Peters in Democrat politics. Both she and the Democrat party are owned by Soros. What Soros wants, Soros gets.

so what are you prepared to do?

Handguns? Rifles? If and when it starts raining hell, it won't be about either one. Take a look at Iraq and other playgrounds of social chaos. See what they're doing to shake, rattle, and roll.

Everything

From the cap gun to the 50 BMG,

Thanks,Keith

I still think it's the "scary sneaky" things they'll go after this time. So my recommended purchases if you want them now would be:

Kel-Tec Sub-2000 carbine. It can be carried under a coat at 16" long, or in a laptop bag, and unfolded in less than a second to become a full-sized carbine with 20-30 round mags. It's been called the "budget bodyguard's MP5" as a result, and it's a fine SHTF and hiking stowable weapon. They WILL demonize that one.

Kel-Tec SU-16C, for the same reasons. Any of the models, really. Add the PLR-16 as well, since it's a .223 pistol, and must be a COP KILLER.

Tokarev TT-33. Apparently some cop was shot by a drug dealer with one in 1999, and his vest was nearly compromised. It will be on the "cop killer" list as a result, if there is one.

FN FiveseveN. Same reasons. It's never been used in a crime, and however unlikely it is that a crackhead will buy a $800 pistol to knock over the quicky mart, and despite the fact that civilians CAN NOT BUY the AP ammo, they can make noise about it and call it scary.

Anything that even looks like an Uzi, Mac-10, or other SMG. Any SMG parts kits you want, get'em now, even the old CZ's. They'll claim that you can make a new reciever out of an exhaust pipe and terrorize a school. Or something.

AOWs. Silencers. I don't know of any crimes committed using a silencer on a threaded barrel on a good pistol, but lawmakers watch too many Hollywood movies.

Don't forget box cutters and duct tape.

I still say they'll get stuck where they were at the last assault weapons ban. If they tread too far, they start messing with the Fuddites. The percentage who sat by when the last ban passed won't sit by if there's federal registration...especially if it means higher taxes. No one wants to pay for that crap. There'll be mass confusion. They'll probably arrest a RICH fuddite, who will create a stink.

That said, .50cals will be the first to go. They'll grandfather the existing ones owned by people, put the remainder on title 2, and ban manufacture of new ones (alla Street Sweepers in the 90s). It would be a dent on the gun community as a whole and few people would be affected. .50s are basically seen as a rich man's toy.

Personally, I've been putting more than I should lately in stripped receivers, AK parts kits, magazines, and so forth. By January I should have the "legal bits" of four or five ARs and two or three Cold War era AKs, and not a one of them in running condition. I know other folk who are piling up receivers betting on the same "pre-ban" cache pre-94 receivers had in the ban era.

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Yet again I reiterate. The anti gun folks have sold more guns and put more /sarcasm=ON/"scary, evil, baby killers"/sarcasm=Off/ in folks hands then anything else. I swear they are their own worst enemy. Encumbered by idjits we press on. Sigh.

That said, .50cals will be the first to go. They'll grandfather the existing ones owned by people, put the remainder on title 2, and ban manufacture of new ones (alla Street Sweepers in the 90s). It would be a dent on the gun community as a whole and few people would be affected. .50s are basically seen as a rich man's toy.

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Thankfully, I think Mr. Barrett would raise hell about that with public advertisements as to that, and also refuse to ever sell any again to the US government...and likely cancel support contracts for those currently in use as well. And probably prevent any other companies from providing similar ones by tying them up in court with patent fights.

The end result would be "your lawmakers made the troops lose an essential weapon in the War on Terror". That would go over like a lead balloon.

If you're all that worried about gun-ban legislation, remember that there is political action you can take. Merely write to the Republican National HQ to explain that if Dubya doesn't veto anti-gun legislation, you're staying home in 2008. A few thousand letters would be quite scary to them.

Snail mail. I've read that the analyst-boffins claim that one mail-in letter generally represents at least 300 others with the same opinion.

Just keep it simple and polite.

But don't do that unless you really care...

Art

rbernie's got a pretty good list, but there is one thing he left out:

-mandatory "safety approval" for all handguns at a minimum, a la current requirements in California, followed by expanding that list to detachable magazine semi-auto rifles and shotguns. This is an approach they've discussed in the past.

Not so sure banning imports of 'non-sporting' calibers ammo woud work. .223/5.56 and 7.62x39 specifically, since .223 is probably the most popular varmint caliber around, and 7.62x39 is a common deer round-remember the hunter who murdered a bunch of guys in MN last year? Hunting with a 7.62x39 Saiga.