What would you have done?

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possom813

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An hour south of D/FW
Here recently I have become much more aware of my surroundings and ways to stay safe. For example, we're redoing the landscaping on the house to include some very thorny plants under the windows and just simple things like that. Most of this new awareness has been because of threads and links posted here on THR.

Anyway, let's say a situation like this happened, and the question at hand.

I work 12 hour shifts and due to the distance I drive, I'm usually up for around 18-20 hours a day when I'm on shift. One morning I get off work after being up for around 18 hours and I am tired. No other excuse for what happens, other than being dead tired.

I hit the highway on the way home, 2 lanes north, 2 lanes south. I am southbound. There is a white work truck directly behind me. I am behind a large garbage truck. The white truck changed lanes into the left lane, and I came over in front of him. I never see the silver minivan that was next to and behind me.

He honked and when I heard the horn I saw that I wasn't anymore than 2 feet from hitting the van. So I floored it, roughly 350 horsepower in the truck and plenty of power to get out of the way. I got clear of what could have been a bad day. I was a good 1/4 of a mile in front of the van before I finally slowed down.

I glanced in the rearview and here comes the van at 90mph and got up next to me. It was an older gentleman, probably late 60's with what I would assume was his wife in the passenger seat. He did the waving and pointing his finger at me and saying something, not that I could have read his lips at 70mph, but God Bless him, he tried.

There aren't many hand signals to apologize for almost causing an accident, so I tried sign language for I didn't see you. I guess it didn't work. He made a few more choice gestures, and then he reached towards his pocket. I believe this is the point where the new ideals came into play. Any other time I would have dismissed this small gesture. But I don't know what came over me, but his left hand was reaching up trying to unbutton the pocket, his right hand on the steering wheel and he was completely focused on me, so not wanting to find out what was coming out the pocket I swerved my truck at him to distract whatever it was he wanted so badly. This forced him to put both hands back on the wheel and I gassed it again to get ahead of him.

Once ahead of him, I stayed there and called the police. I let them know the situation and that something needed to happen before someone got hurt. They basically told me to go someplace public and wait for the police to show up. So we're 10 miles from nowhere and he's 2 feet off of my bumper and it appeared he was writing down my license plate number, so I "brake check" to back him off a little and took off again. It doesn't bother me if he wrote down the plate number, but being that close to me made me very uncomfortable. He stayed behind me but backed off to about 100 foot or so.

We came into a small town with 2 gas stations so I pulled into one of those and got 10/22 in the front seat with me. I'm not licensed for concealed carry so I usually only have a small caliber rifle in the truck. The van slowed down to turn in which would have either been good or bad. I would have liked to apologize to the guy, because I didn't see him, but I didn't know if his thoughts were the same. But as he slowed down, it appeared the lady and two other passengers, that I couldn't see previously because of tinted windows, were yelling at him to go. He got off the shoulder and back into the lane and drove on. It was over, although I did wonder if the Sheriff's Dept. would show up today and question me about it.

Anyways, would you have done anything different?

-John
 
I definately would not have purposely swerved at him with my truck. Might even be considered attempted assault in some places for all i know.
 
Points taken. I'm posting this mainly to know how to deal with something along the lines of this if it were to happen.

I don't want anyone to get hurt. That was the primary thought. Looking at it, the swerve probably isn't the smartest thing, but, at the time, I couldn't think of anything else to do to get him back on the task of driving. And driving in front probably isn't the brightest idea either, but the thinking on that is if he was really set on pursuing me I could easily outrun the minivan. Driving behind him seems like a more sound choice now, but I didn't even think about that.

Keep the constructive criticism coming.

-John
 
Dude, sounds like you circadian rhythm (body clock) is writing checks your body can't cash. not knowing your exact schedule, I'm assuming you're working some kind of 3 on, 4 off rotation. In any case, you're leaving yourself 4 hours of sleep/night and that ain't good.

I ran on a similar schedule years ago during the floods in 1993, I had so many contractor jobs that a 3 hours of slumber a night was oversleeping. That lasted about 5 months until it caught up with me.
 
I've been on this schedule for going on 3 years. It's a 2 on 2 off 3 on 2 off 2 on 3 off schedule. The schedule isn't too big of a deal. On an average day I'll get roughly 6 hours of sleep, on shift or not. 6 hours is about all I can go, if I sleep much past that I'm worn down all day.

It may be catching up to me after all of this time, but I should be alright. I don't have to go back to work until Nov. 5.
 
More than likley a man and his wife wouldnt do that!
A man or men in a truck or hot rod car is more likely!

The first thing I would do in that senario, is wave and say sorry.

If it went beyond that then i would have done exactly what you did
 
I've been there, Next time don't try any "hand signals" Just wave and mouth I'm sorry and forget it. He might have mistaken your "hand signals" for something else. I was chased by an 18 wheeler not to long ago. drove behind me for 10 miles flashing his lights & such, the faster I went the faster he would go (and this is on the interstate) finally made my break, took 1 exit before mine and he followed, blew the stop sign hard left and was gone before he could get started after having to stop for the people I almost cut off (they were that close). Don't know what he wanted and don't care. I had my XD-40SC and my S&W 457 in the durango with me but I wasn't about to find out what he wanted.
 
possom,

Sounds like you may be having sleep debt issues. 6 hours a night may be okay for awhile but it will catch up with you in the long run. BTDT.

Despite what the MADD moms out there say, the greatest threat to driving is fatigue.
 
I know the problems of sleep deficit all too well. The closest I ever came was, and it would have been one of those "Tragically Ironic" stories where someone gets killed right after taking a defensive driving course.

That would have been me. I went to work one night, and just after I walked through the door, "Hey, we all have to go to this thing in the morning!" I was already dead beat from only getting about 3 hours of sleep over the previous couple of days, and I really didn't want or need to stay up another 4 hours past normal. My boss comes in and says I have to go, or get canned, since I do drive the company van and SUV quite a bit.

So, at 10AM, two hours after I get off my shift, I go to the class, and am already a basket case. I fell asleep several times, once for 20 minutes ( The instructor told them to let me sleep!), but at the end, only one person got a perfect score on the test. Me!

On the way home, less than five minutes after I left work, I fell asleep the first time. I hit the median, woke up and went all over the road before I got the truck straightened out. Scared the crap out of me! But I was so tired, I fell asleep less than a mile down the road, and just missed running into a train bridge pillar. I was almost home at that point, and did stay awake until I got there. If I had wrecked my truck, and survived, I would have sued them so fast...

Years before that, I fell asleep while I was carrying $10000 in casino chips to the pit. I said I "tripped", but I really fell asleep. I was falling asleep suddenly and often enough I got scared. I had a bunch of tests and was just sleep deprived. A couple of times during the tests they said I was dreaming while awake and talking. When I closed my eyes, I saw all kinds of ghosty images for a few seconds then went out, right into REM sleep.

Now that I'm over 50, good sleep is harder and harder to come by.
 
When in doubt, slow down. If there were not a lot of cars around, slow down quickly and let him shoot ahead of you. If it was kind of busy, get as far to the right as possible, and slow down as soon as you can while not being too disruptive to traffic.

This does 2 things. A: gives you somewhat of an alibi. If the first thing you try is deescalation, and the other guy still pursues, you have something in your favor. And B: a lot of times these road-ragers want to defeat you in some way. They need that feeling of superiority and triumph. If you slow down and back away from them, you give them a victory. Yes, it may hurt your pride, but don't play their game. Let them have their little mental victory, and just get on with your life.
 
To me, the biggest mistake you made was in your swerve towards him when you saw him going for something in his pocket. At that point you became the aggressor. Would have been better to check your rearview mirror and hit the brakes when you were side-x-side putting some distance between the two of you with him in front. Or, if he also came over after you then you could hit the shoulder and dial the police. If the "I'm sorry" gesture doesn't work then the ball's in their court. Only other way is if you can out run him, but this gets you the ticket if there's an officer up ahead.

I'd suggest that next time you work on escape and evasion, much cleaner to defend should it come to that. And that "brake check" can be considered an aggressive action as well, even though I'm tempted to use it on a daily basis here in one of the tailgate capitals of the world.
 
Where I live, you'd be prone on the ground for road rage and being armed, legal or otherwise just wouldn't have been good.

If I were you, I would have slowed down, ignored him and let him go on. Deescalate.

While I think we as gun owners are fortunate that we are able to defend ourselves. it should always be a last option and given the political climate in this country we must take extra care to use our best judgment and not appear in anyway to be the aggressor.
 
I once pulled out in front of a guy (because I was too focused on what my wife was saying) and really pissed him off. He followed me an inch from my bumper for about a half mile until I decided to pull over. He took it upon himself to pull over with me diagonally, blocking me from the front. He jumped out of his car and as he was walking around the bed of his truck he yanked off his shirt and reached into the bed (at that very moment I shoved my wife into the floor board, drew down on him and threw it into reverse. He saw my pistol and jumped behind his truck, when he saw me stop 100 yards away and call the police he took off.

The only thought in my mind as I drew my pistol was "I am going to shoot this guy". When I saw him take off my two thoughts were "I am glad my wife is safe, and I am so glad I didn't shoot that guy". There happened to be a police officer in the area and they got the guy. I forgot to mention he was obviously a tweaker and that he had a giant Iron cross on his left breast. It is hard to believe I had a run in with a "Nazi" in Oklahoma City.

Up until that point my wife used to complain when I took a pistol everywhere. The day before that was the last time she ever did. Sometimes even the right path stumbles into trouble, but when they are filling out the report it helps a lot in your favor. Being a veteran doesn't hurt either.
 
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There is a significant body of evidence that shows that people who drive while tired are as lethal as those driving DUI.

Don't do it. Take a nap in your car for a couple hours or something. You were obviously tired and paranoid and you almost killed someone several times.
 
what to do

Swerving as if to hit him was bad. Better to have hit the brakes and let him get in front of you.
Road rage only upsets others. let it go. Let them go. If apology isn't accepted forget about it. Don't ever try to engage violence with more when on the road.
Be thankful nothing bad really happened.
obladee, oblada life goes on:uhoh:
 
I worked full time while going to school. I often worked a fair amount of OT, so it was not unusual for me to be getting 4-5 hours of sleep per day.

Every now and then I would schedule a day off to catch up on my sleep.

Even so it gradually caught up with me and my grades suffered.

After I graduated, I had the dickens of a time adjusting to a normal schedule. I often could not go to sleep until 1 or 2 am, getting up at 630 or so to go to work. I am not sure why, but i did that for several years before i was able to get to sleep any earlier. got a lot of reading in.
 
It was an older gentleman, probably late 60's with what I would assume was his wife in the passenger seat.

plus

..and two other passengers, that I couldn't see previously because of tinted windows...

plus

I swerved my truck at him to distract whatever it was he wanted so badly.

Equals you/your vehicle getting shot at by their overzealous grandkid in the back who is licensed to carry. He was snoozing and missed the initial confrontation so he doesn't know all the details. Before he can find out why his grandfather is doing 90 and reaching for his cell phone to dial 911 some guy strung out on drugs tries to run them off the road. Feeling that his life is truly in danger from some crackhead he pulls and fires.

I realize that it's a worst case scenario but isn't that what we need to expect? I can't say what I would have done on the spot because I wasn't there, but in hindsight I would have pulled over when he was beside you. That puts him in front and allows you to dictate where things are going to go from there.
 
I guess i'd try to get away if my truck had 350 under the hood. With a minivan chasing you, you should be able to get away. If he somehow keeps up or manages to follow you, head for the cop shop or some public place like a walmart and get yourself behind cover up by the front of the store. Calling the cops was a good idea if he was making threatening gestures like that.
 
Put some ranch hand bumpers on the front and back and forget about it. Its made me much more relaxed knowing I'm not going to sustain damage in a collision.
 
+1 ON THE BUMPERS
I drive a heap, and if someone tailgates me, it was an ugly truck this morning, if they screw up, it will still be an ugly truck. :neener: but at least thake heart in the fact that that woman is probably still giving that 60 yr old hell for provocking that pickup truck on the road one night
 
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