A Modern BP Self-Defense Revolver

I think to satisfy the premise of the thread one would encase the cap in some sort of shell that also held the powder and ball. Then these would be brought into battery either by a rotating cylinder or having the shell brought into a chamber. And gee I think this is exactly what a modern gun looks like. And there is a reason for that. Modern guns were made from the lessons learned from BP guns. The only real change from a modern gun and a BP gun is the BP. Smokeless powder is really all that has changed. But this change allowed many things to improve. Such as velocity of the fired ball. But this increased pressure so advances in metallurgy were needed. But the fact remains modern guns are derived from black powder guns.

The one thing I`ve always liked about the 1858 Remmington ..take away the loading lever and the design is timeless .

You could make a rather nice non-breachloading auto pistol that would handle about like a glock if you wanted to.

Why bother though? If you want to make a modern muzzle loading defensive gun think in terms of home/building defense. You could make a rather nice full-auto swivel mount rifle that would be far more interesting. My design is to have a steel bar with chambers bored from one side and nipples on the other, when loaded you might have 100+ 50cal bullets on a 2 or 3 foot long bar. Drop the bar into a slot on the back of the gun and

BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG CLATTER as the bar drops through. Drop another bar in... the hammer would just slide along the back of the bar or spin, the rate of fire could be controlled with a roller to slow the bar's fall through the gun, the trigger would actually be a block to stop the bar from falling which you release.

You could even make a loading machine... pass one of the bars through and it would charge each chamber, insert a bullet, and install a cap. Maybe skip caps and go to standard primers which would allow you to go to a more modern chamber shape and smaller diameter bullets. Use a "nipple" that was a threaded breach plug with a primer cup that, once fitted, may even be welded in place.

50 bars (of 100 chambers each), a loading machine, and a swivel gun designed to feed the bars would be expensive but what does a 50cal machine gun go for these days? I bet I could beat the price by a fair margin and provide a very suitable perimeter defense solution perfect for every survival need.

Anyone want to go into business?

Ok I'll bite.. First of all this pice has to be dish washer safe! No wood and no parts that a hot dish washer soap, rinse, and blow dry will create can have any effect, so cleaning is so simple a child can do it and can't fail.

All the moving parts shall be coated in teflon, so no liquid lubes are needed.

Since it is limited to BP and synthetic BP powders it must shoot a ball diameter of no less than 38 calibur and no larger than 50 cal.

The diameter isn't or doesn't have to be the bullet diameter, so it could be a sabot bullet lesser than bore diameter.

Since it is dedicated to self defence at with in reasonable limits means 21 feet and less, it needs nealy no sights and mine would have none.

Instead it would have laser grips, but totally water proof.

To get effective loads the clyinder on my which is a wheel gun would be bases on the .41 cal snake charmer, so it would have a long cylinder for no less than 50 grains capcity, and would handle with ease FFFFg (4F) powders for the most pressure possible. The metalurgy would exceed that of the Casuyl (sp).454. Fully loaded at the cylinder it would hold 5 ready to go charges.

In addition there would be a wide spectrum of projectile choices, from shot to mulitple solid wafers besides sabot and bore sized slugs and round ball.

Inside the grip would be a few mechanisms, that loaded at least 5 charges after the cylinder was shot empty, and also cap these 5 extra charges so once the weapon was loaded, it would self load 5 more times, with out doing anything more than pulling the trigger to fire.

This inner grip area would seal 110% safe proof, with no chance of a spark getting in the grip.

These mechanisims would be made of high denstiy fully machinable plastics, as levers, linkage, springs, and screws that move the powder, projectile, and caps in to the clyinder.

The filler caps would self retain like a chain saw gas cap, so when cleaning in the dish washer all you would do is unscrew the cap and let it dangle.

To load it you would drop in the rounds, the powder and the caps and cock the piece 5 times, and then added enough to make 5 more full rounds.

After the first shot the empty bore would self load in stages just like making pistol ammo on a press loader, except there is no primer to punch out.

The barrel would be 1.5 inchs long and have aggressive fast twist rifling.

Recoil would not exceed that of a common .357 MAX, and better would mimic the new .327 just out.

In the grip slabs would be a very sharp double edged mini knife, with a bottle cap flipper for kicks and grins since this isn't gonna be real, and on the other grip you get a instant match stick that is nuclear. Hey why not?

Probably the frame is made of titainium to keep it light.
It would pass both kali and Mass law and have no safety.

It will not explode if you run it over with a train.

The grips would be heat sensitive and know if the shooter was under duress, and a little gyro embbeded in the frame would steady real shakey hands.

The heat device would have a safe off mode for target work.

It would have ability to test skin for higher than legal levels of liquid libations, but still be smart enough to function under duress.

Ok so now everyone can have a good hearty laff on ol' Mac

Why use black (and substitute black) powder Mac?

It's a touchy subject around here but it's perfectly possible to make a muzzle loader or cap&ball gun that is designed for smokeless powder. At one point someone was coverting NAA Companion revolvers to use pistol primers instead of caps. IIRC they were doing (or at least claiming to do) 30cal three-shot conversions of the NAA .22 designed for smokeless powder. Sadly that company turned out to also rip people off but that doesn't make the idea bad. Savage made/makes a muzzle loading rifle designed for smokeless as well.

This is the title... A Modern BP Self-Defense Revolver

read back to see my disclaimers and opinions..

I finally decided to try to play...

I can't see the design in my head exactly, and I have big doubts this would be remotely practical now or ever, but a few of the ideas might be nice.

Modern self defense BP revolver...
Taurus Titanium Tracker in .45
Stainless cylinder for black powder and modified to use 209 shotgun primers and with a quick remove cyl.
Night sights and laser grips.


Evil

I like Shotgun willie's idea of the piezoelectric nipples. It's quite plausible. Consider the igniter on your grill, most of the mechanism replicates the pistol's hammer to strike the crystal and the charge wouldn't have travel about 6" of wire to the electrode.

I would make it some sort of electric ignition so that you wouldn't need caps. The cylinder would swing out, and you would load paper cartridges in through the rear of the cylinder. These paper cartridges would be made of thick paper with the back flat. Wheh you cock the hammer to put a chamber in to battery, the rotation of the cylinder would cut the back of that one chamber off, so that the firing mechanism could get to the powder. The outside of the paper would be fire resistant, but it would burn from the inside so that little if any paper is left after firing the round. It would have a heavy payload, and tritrium sites. I believe that sites are important for self defense unless you are in extremely close quarters, so they would be included, but easily removed for those who don't like them. There would be an option for laser grips. I don't like them, but it is a way to tack dollars onto the price. It would have a case hardened fram and browned barrel, just so it looks different.

Why go with a revolver.... try this angle

I cant remember but I think winchester made a lever action pistol using a caseless rocket typr bullet. That gun failed because the bullets were weak in power.

BUT WE HAVE PYRODEX PELLETS!!!!

A Lever pistol using a caseless bullet/pyrodex pellet combo with the pellet attached to the projectile.

combine that with electric ignition.

and you'd have a rapid fire defence pistol with plenty of power.

I go along with Macmac. The BP revolvers we all use and love were cutting edge in their day. If I have to sort out a BG in the night situation however I want something more consistently reliable. Also, indoors which is what this post is about, you not want to be blinded by the smoke cloud from your own weapon.

1858remington, the lever pistol you're thinking about was called the Volcanic. It was Winchester's first attempt at gun producing. Before that Winchester owned a shirt company. And your memory serves you well the projectile was like a minie ball with the hollow being filled with powder.

so we remake the volcanic.

the pyrodex pellets have a hole down their center, so if the projectile had a tale to fit in the hole they would stay together like a cartridge.

I've seen some sabots for 50cal with a tail for just such a purpose.

Why do we need a break top? Why not just a swing out crane where the cylinder was not blocked from sliding off to the rear? Reloading would be done exactly like on a hand ejector style S&W, i.e. swing out the crane/cylinder, push an ejector rod that would pop out the cylinder, drop a new cylinder onto the crane and close, fire, repeat. Jerry Miculek could do reloads that would put autoloaders to shame, and it would be with a muzzle loader!

re: BP revolver for self-defense

Ruger made (has discontinued) a BP revolver called the Old Army. Short of adding a swing out crane for the cylinder (to facilitate swapping of loaded cylinders for empties), it is as modern as a BP revolver can be. Uses coil spring internals instead of leaf style springs. If someone has one they don't want any more & want to sell cheap (I'm poor, sorry!) I'm your guy.
BTW, I just registered & you all have a great group of BP aficionados posting here.

This would make a dandy self defense BP pistol




Buck and ball down each bore would work!

You can still find a few Ruger old army in 45. and then buy a conversion cylinder and shoot 45lc. .

TBM said

If someone has one they don't want any more & want to sell cheap (I'm poor, sorry!) I'm your guy.

Click to expand...

Welcome to the forum, but get in line for that Ruger, your at least behind me

I have a ROA that i bought in 1972 used lightly.. it would kill you guys if i said what i paid for it then...

Would I use that for ccw? no way.. Would I use that for a home defence weapon? No way..

To my thinking as I have stated BP isn't going to come back for defence, but if some how it did a 10 shot would be about my minimum..

With modern guns there is too much bling to suit me. I want basics in a CCW gun and or home defence.

The difference there to me is a ccw weapon means you can carry it concealed with out getting winks from every woman around in 50 miles. CCW means CCW.

Home defence can be a 12 ga shot gun in pump, semi auto and doubles, and is a far cry from ccw.

As of late I have decided for just me thaT A SEMI AUTO WITH A CASE OR 2 LEFT behind is too much tale left behind.

(I hit caps in error sorry)

So a BP defence gun has to have some sort of advantage over any other modern brass catridge gun, or it won't matter much. What is the advantage?

My best guess is atleast 10 shots and no brass. A slug that isn't easy to trace. That means not store bought.

The why, is because these days in a case where you meet legal criteria for self defence you pay out 50,000 bucko's no problem, no matter what the records show about that bad guy.

I know this isn't exactly legal, but all in all, why say more than you must say. Bullets and cases say alot, with out any words from you.

The intent is to stop a bad guy from what ever it is that is the lethal threat.

You don't want to kill him, you just want to stop him when otherwise he won't stop.

The courts don't like weird stuff, and the courts are not going to like any BP guns at all.

With a modern and typical CCW gun if you have the wrong kind of ammo by some trade name, that is all it takes to get you a life time pass in a room with light green paint. If you cast target rounds, and happen to have these in that gun you get the same treatment in the courts.

Like I said a great big pair of hoss pistols with atleast a .62 bore would be fun to dream about stopping a bad guy at the door, one who gets his pants all wet, and runs away, but bad guys aren't like that much. They come back if they are not stopped.

With a pair of big hoss pistols and a soap box you just might have it made, but then it is in yer dreams.

Yes Timthinker, that is what the gun pictured is. It is a remake of the Old British Elephant pistols called Howdah pistols. Made for shooting tigers as they tried to get up to you on the elephant!

20 Ga smooth bore .62 cal caplock. Roundball will weigh aprox. 340grs.

It is a beauty and I am fighting off buying one but fear it is a loosing battle!

Pedersoli makes it.

For those who think that a muzzleloader for selfdefense or home defense is stupid. Think about our brothers across the pond who can only easily own muzzleloaders. If I lived in France for instance I would definitely have more than one loaded and primed revolver(hammer on the empty chamber) in the house.