A Modern BP Self-Defense Revolver

[Timthinker]

During the 19th century, soldiers and civilians depended upon caplock revolvers as a means of self-defense. This obvious historical fact led me to ponder an unusual question: what would a modern caplock revolver look like if it was designed for self-defense purposes? Admittedly, this idea is impractical for several reasons. I recognize this fact now to prevent someone from hijacking my thread by stressing the impracticality of such a design. Yet, the idea is intriguing to me at least. So, what are some ideas our contributors have about such a gun? I would appreciate your design inputs.


Timthinker

 

[Shotgun Willy]

Don't make it a caplock. Make it electric, like the rifle cva put out. I think making it break open, like a Schofield, for rapid reloading, would be a good idea. Just break it open, pull out the empty cylinder, drop in the full one, and snap it closed.

 

[Pulp]

A 1911 will function with BP loads, at least for a little while. At least I've always heard it will, never tried it myself.

 

[Pancho]

The last percussion revolver designed by Colt was the 1862 Colt Police. It was a 1/3 smaller than the full sized Colts. Check out my thread on my photo experiment. It shows two of my 62's compared to a Ruger Old Army for size. Dell leathers even has a cool shoulder rig made just for the 1862 Colt Police.

 

[Macmac]

I don't believe there can be any design, unless you have a working time machine. The time machine is what is lacking as it is based on time.

I lived in a modern world in the 19th century for 1,095 days or 3 full years.

My time was based on 19th century time, and everyone else was in the 20th at that time. When you live in one time frame and everyone else lives in another there is no way to make things equal.

Trying selfdefence in the 21st century in the 19th time mode is certainly going to have a bad ending for whom ever trys that trick.

 

[Pancho]

Yeah Mac, but can you imagine a car jacker being shot at at close range with a black powder pistol at night? The flame, the smoke, the terror, the fecal matter all over the sidewalk.

 

[Timthinker]

Let me restate that I realize such a design is impractical. Nevertheless, I am interested in the design features others would like to see on such a project. Consider this an intellectual exercise if nothing else. I hope this info helps clearify the nature of this thread. After reading a few more posts, I will state some of my views. Thanks for your indulgence.


Timthinker

 

[Macmac]

Yeah I can, but if he has a buddy with a 21st century rig, it is still going to have a bad ending...

Oh I dream of standing in my doorway with 2 big old hoss pistols in .69 bores, and while I am nutso, I would never do it that way..

 

[Pancho]

I like Shotgun Willie's idea of the Sholfield break down. 44 cal. with a 3" barrel.

 

[Timthinker]

Macmac, do not underestimate anything in .69 caliber! If I am not mistaken, .69 caliber is larger than the bore diameter of a 20 gauge shotgun. Again, what we are discussing is impractical, but not ineffective. Your .69 caliber slug would make a nastier hole than a .38 slug. By the way, I would not want to challenge a man with two drawn horse pistols. Doing so seems like suicide to me.

I do understand the thrust of your argument and I agree with it in large measure. I hope my comments clearify my position. Good luck with those horse pistols.


Timthinker

 

[Shotgun Willy]

I had another thought on this. If someone wanted to retrofit existing cylinders with piezoelectric crystal systems, that would screw in where the nipples screw in, would that work? Or do p.e. crystals not generate enough power, when struck, to create enough spark?

 

[StrawHat]

I probably do not understand the premise.

Are you trying to redesign a black powder gun for today or trying to picture what was considered a SD gun then?

A double twelve would do a good job.

Or maybe something like this.

 

[sundance44s]

It would be pretty cool to use black powder , But the courts may frown upon you when someone tells how you not only killed the badguy but your shot set the guys clothes on fire ..and you had this BIG grin on your face !

 

[Mike OTDP]

I figure that a modern percussion revolver would look a lot like a S&W L or N-frame revolver. There would be a big debate...some designers would go with a frame-mounted loading lever like a Colt or Remington, others would have a loading tool for the cylinders and sell spare cylinders. With those guns, reloading would consist of opening the gun, pulling the old cylinder, dropping in a spare cylinder, and closing the gun.

Caps would be held on by some sort of a backplate

 

[Pancho]

Strawhat, didn't the Mormon's have a name for that pistol something like Avenging Angel? I like the optimism of those front sights.

 

[1858remington]

Here's what I would like to see

How about this:

a double action only, no hammer to snag clothes.

5 to 6 shot revolver with electric ignition.

Break top, for quick cylinder change, in a 3 inch barrel.

In .36 or .44 cal., maybe even a .50cal

Made with modern metals, possibly air weight.

Something like this might be a possibility in the future. What with all the laws they keep tryin to pass to take cartridge guns from us.

If it was offered, I'd be the first in line to buy one.

 

[sundance44s]

I`ve got an old Remmie I was thinking of a rainy day project ..like the one at the bottom of this page ..a nice little 45 bulldog carry pistol ..http://www.riverjunction.com/kirst/konverteracc.html

 

[MikeJackmin]

With modern metals, there's no overriding reason why you could not make a muzzleloading, BP version of your favorite modern self-defense revolver. It would require some significant changes to keep it from gumming up too quickly and it might be a bear to reload, but you could do it.

If 'rapid' reloads are necessary, the breaktop idea seems hard to beat; if not, the biggest challenge would be to provide for sufficient power in a small package. BP is low-pressure stuff, so you'd have to go with a big bore and at least a modest barrel length. This would limit you to twin-barrel derringers and five-shot revolvers, I guess.

Given all that, I'll take a round-butt, three-inch, 45 caliber, five-shot scofield-looking thing in a shoulder rig, and an O/U .36 derringer as a BUG. A brace of external hammer, SxS 12 gauges will have to do for the bedside.

 

[StrawHat]

"Strawhat, didn't the Mormon's have a name for that pistol something like Avenging Angel? " Pancho

I am aware of the use of this style by the Mormons "security" people. The group itself was known as the Avenging Angels. I am not aware of the revolver itself being referred to as such. Possible though.

It was not an uncommon conversion and many examples have been shown in collections.

It was used by lawmen and lawbreakers alike (when you could tell the difference). Dallas Stoudenmire and the man who murdered him both carried similar conversions, one converted to the 44 Colt cartridge and the other still a cap and ball, if I remember correctly.

"I like the optimism of those front sights." Pancho

That sight was originally for a rifle I would have built. It was fit to the revolver and has been filed some since the photo was taken. Next trip to the range will see it dialed in a bit more. But it certainly does catch the eye for point shooting techniques!

 

[Pancho]

StrawHat, Did you solder it in place?

 

[1858remington]

It would be cool to build one in 50 cal that could use the same Maxi ball ammo you use for deer.

That would help with the pressure, due to just the bullet to barrel contact.

Probably would kick like a mule, but down range would deliver more than enough stopping power.

My remmies use 25 to 30 grains. the 50 would be cool with a 40 to 50 grain charge. Hand cannon.

I wish i was a gunsmith.:banghead:

 

[DuncanSA]

Come on, lets be serious. I enjoy shooting BP weapons in all shapes and forms but for self defence you are simply not going to come anywhere near modern handguns with nitro ammo.

 

[jason10mm]

What about the "modern" black powder? Aren't they in pellet form now? So you could have a semi-rapid reloader where you drop in the powder pellet, chase it with the ball, and the cylinder is then sealed so no wadding is necessary and the powder would stay protected from the elements for a decent length of time. Look like a revolver with a shroud over the cylind
fer, or maybe a pepperbox style multibarrel pistol.

Heck, I wonder if the Metal Storm concept would work. Load the barrels with a series of rounds. Technically it is a muzzle loader

 

[sundance44s]

Maybe attach the ball/bullet to a pyrodex pellet ...that would be like the future world modern bullets I saw on the history channel the otherday ..they were caseless modern bullets that were stacked in a barrel and fired one at a time with an electro fireing gismo .

 

[Macmac]

What is that ft blade site for? A house fly could land on it I guess.. geeze.. A gun like that needs no sights at all.. You can't miss with yer knuckes touching the DOOMed guys paunch!

Well yeah .69 cal was once common. Just a bit to small to fit 0.715 ball. I have never head of this .69 in gauge, and I have no bore gauge on hand just now, but my guess it is would be about 13 to 14 ga.. Based on 12 ga is apx 0.712 or so..

To me selfdefence means you have a real need to stop a very bad guy, and to me then there is no room for old hoss pistols.

if I were to pull that off as a stunt, first it is a very poor choice of stunts.

next I would have something modern stuffed in my belt, but the stunt could cost time and that could cost my own life for no more than a stunt.

I beleive it is just as illegal to brandish 2 big ol hoss pistols as it is to wave anything else around when you don't mean it.

So maybe while the idea seems fun, the real action isn't going to get you anywhere....................

except maybe under the idea of you fought with modern, and ran out of ammo, and way back in the bed room them old hoss pistols were the last resort to breaking chairs over the bad guys head...

Now on the other hand if I was a bad guy and someone already scared popped open the door with 2 big ol hoss pistols, I would be leavin a back trail not so very hard to follow, but I don't play at being a bad guy much, execpt for passin wind under the covers at night which makes my wife gasp like trout out of water!


And since BP is so out of date no court would look upon this as real self defence, and you would get a very bad day in court. The authorites would have lots of fun, making sure you were marked for life as a wacko, just because the weapon system was so strange to most modern man..

The only place to me this idea could be remotely valid is at a camp Voos..

Some wild and pre planned, and staged, written snaffu made to look real for public viewing.

I love the idea, but the reality is such that it can never be.

Perhaps one more look..

I suppose if you are other wise a law abiding citizen, but never owned any sort of cnter fire weapon ever in your whole life and still somehow had a small collection of BP Guns, maybe, just maybe under a real life serious lethal threat and to save your life used a BP Gun in this instant because there was no other common choice, you might pull it off in a court of law.

i would have my doubts the criteria can be met..

I live for dreams, and at times make certain dreams come as true as I can, even for others, but this dream I just can't see. The errors add up to to much cost in terms of life to me.