300 winmag has recoil?

MIKEt1981 said:

And here is the 22 round, it is tinyyy compared to the 300 win mag, I feel like this won't even do anything.

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It will penetrate 7-8" into something. Like getting stabbed with an 8" ice pick. It may LOOK small, but it DEMANDS respect. a LOT of people get killed with those every year.

Check this out:
http://www.brassfetcher.com/WaltherP22test.html

What I've done here is to take those numbers, cut them in HALF (to represent the decreased penetration from clothing and the variances between different tissues), and overlay them onto an image of a human torso:


Assuming, the round doesn't hit bone, a CCI velocitor will penetrate almost completely through you.

The first gun I bought was a 300WM, but I had shot a .30-30 as my first gun.

I knew the 300 would kick, but I still got scope eye.

FWIW, I bought it because I read Point of Impact. Couldn't find a .300H&H like the 10th Black King, so I 'settled' for a 300WM.

Now, I have a trashcan full of antlers from deer that fell to that rifle. I'm zeroing in a handload that will do MOA out to 300 (ain't got any ranges in my area with more distance).

But, reading the OP sure did bring back memories. Ah to be young.

The 300WM feels like a BB gun compared to my 375H&H that might weight 8-1/2# with the scope. No scope eye from the big boy though. I actually know how to handle the sledgehammer.

It isn't the kid's fault he doesn't know, besides you gotta start somewhere. No body told him that 22lr is a good starting point, or that 300wm would probably turn him off to shooting and make him flinch really bad.

New shooters should be gracefully welcomed with open arms, regardless of how ignorant or stupid. I remember when I started shooting, as I'm sure everyone else does as well.

I wouldn't call him a kid. He made an uninformed decision, asked, found out there are better choices and took the advice offered. Even to the point of buying the exact equipment suggested. In my book thats pretty mature.

+1 to that, Cyanide. Some of y'all are bashing on him a bit hard I think. He now has 2 excellent rifles, and a way to learn how to use them. Really, he hasn't done badly, other than not researching before he bought. Frankly though, that's not a huge deal, especially as he seems to be working hard to figure this stuff out now.
Unlearned 69 has an excellent point about the power level ammo.

Pardon any typos. I wrote this on my phone.

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Can you say "addicted to THR".
You'd think it's crack!

(just poking fun)

Hey mike, we all started somewhere. The main thing to remember is safety. Take a class or two at a local range to help you get started. I shoot my .22's MORE than I shoot my larger calibre rifles. You can get 200 rounds off .22 for the price of 1 .300wm, that means more practice, more practice means more skills. Also shooting a .22 allows you to focus on your technique, over and over and over. The problem with the recoil isn't that it is painful (which it can be, but it really isn't as bad as people make it out) it is that you WILL develop a flinch. You need to learn proper trigger control and technique. A rifle that cost 1.50 a shot and recoils like a mule kicking isn't a good place to start.

Don't let those fellows upsell you, come here for reccomendations.

Welcome and have fun!

Mike;

Another bit of advice. You got a Ruger 10/22, I have several & like them, it's a good gun. But, (there's that damned but again) with any semi-.22 comes the temptation to just correct a miss by pulling the trigger again - and again - and again.
That doesn't do much for the skill building.

Which is why a couple of guys here suggested you get a bolt action gun. Now, since you've already gotten the 10/22 & have found out what the gun shop will do to you on a trade-in, I'm not going to tell you to get a bolt gun. What I am going to tell you to do is take 10 seconds between shots. If you didn't hit the first time, just yanking the trigger a second time isn't really going to do anything except allow you the opportunity to spend more money on ammo.

That 10 seconds allows you to evaluate the shot. Time to think about why you missed. Squeeze the trigger, don't pull. Learn how to let a shot go & take another breath instead of trying to force it in. Time to think about all the details that go into shooting a good group. Good groups are done one - shot - at - a - time. Not bangbangbangbangbang.

900F

Wow, this thread is getting ridiculously long. I will post up a target on that 22 target that akodo put the link up to. Also, I am located in ann arbor..or I will be very soon when I move their for school. And I know the general safety rules, I always treat a gun as if it's loaded and point it in a safe direction. I just got into shooting this summer. School begins in mid august and I will most likely get very busy.

But I'll read more on here. Btw I went to the range with a friend. None of us had shot before. We rented a handgun, a 40 cal, and used the 22 ruger. The hangun was a lot louder than I expected. My friend jerked when he first walked into the shooting area from the sound of someone else shooting even with ear plugs lol. So apparently I suck at aiming with the handgun, but I got very good results with the ruger. I was hitting all the shots within a 1-2 inch radius on the man target. That long mag really helped, cuz loading the magazine over and over isn't fun. The hand gun definitely felt a lot more powerful though. The gun range is a different store from where I bought the gun.

And to the guy who wrote a paragraph on your phone...wow, that's crazy. A lot of people are really addicted to this site. I mean I have so much time because I'm on break from school, i dunno how everyone can reply in such detail, don't u guys have families and stuff haha? But thanks for the help.

I will post pics of the targets akodo told me to try out soon. One of my friends sort of did the same thing I did, he also bought a big caliber rifle, his is a remington i think, but he bought his 2 months ago, I think he still hasn't shot it yet. I'm gonna show him this thread as well. If anyone can help him out at the range that would be nice too. He lives in wayne county, in westland area. He also owns a hi points 40 cal carbine, he has shot that.

And did someone say obama will take away guns?? I hope that doesn't happen, I just got into shooting! I kind of want to have a collectiion eventually, with 2-3 rifles, something cool like an ak-47 or ar 15, a handgun, and a shotgun.

Oh check this out, this guy is about my size, and he is shooting somthing bigger than my 300. Doesn't look as bad as I thought, but I do realize u can't really tell the "kick" and "bang" from a video.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=AKtWhRlg4Cw

My final question is, do I have to go to a range everytime to shoot? cuz that's gonna be a lot of money. I went once and spent almost 50 dollars (mostly cuz of rental gun and buying ammo for it).

MikeT
There are 4 basics of shooting.
1. Proper position (they differ from prone, sitting, standing, prone supported, and bench as well as some others). This is what will get you stable enough for those long distance shots (long distance depends on the round as well as the shooter)

2. Proper sight picture (scopes don't teach, they just let you see bigger). There are several different types of sights, aperature (peep), iron (notch and blade or post), scope, bead, and ridge (the last two are pretty much shotgun only). Each sight has a different picture that you are striving for when shooting.

3. Breath control. Breathing moves your point of aim .1 inches here, 1 inch there. It is best to breath in, let it half out and then squeeze (or pull, not jerk or push) the trigger.

4. Trigger squeeze. Improper trigger pull can actually move shots on paper as close as 25 yards.

5. Follow through. The slightest jerk while the bullet is in the barrel will affect your shot. I know it seems highly unlikely that you can jerk that quick, since the bullets are moving 650 (subsonic)+ fps, but you can.

The first four are what the teach in basic rifle markmanship at basic training.

Other tips, when you are shooting, get yourself a good sling, and learn how to use it to stabilize your shot. It can be the difference of a 2.5 minute of angle group and a sub minute of angle group (1 inch at 100y).

You said you were doing 1-2 inch groups, at what distance and with what type of sights? That is pretty good for iron sights (it took me a few years to be able to do it every now and again at 100y with a .22)

However, with the brake installed they are pussycats

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Not on the ears, they're not.

I have a lot to say, but time only to hit the high points.

Man, some of you guys are major a-holes for no reason. As long as he's being safe, then who cares the reason for buying the gun. Jeebus, am I the only one who at 18 yrs thought the same way he does? I think some of us may be forgetting what it's like to be young. Who's to say the kid is not going to follow safety rules and advice? Buying it because it's big, powerful, and cool is a 100% perfectly legitimate reason in my book. Go forth, shoot well, and prosper, my little grasshopper.

You're doing oustanding by taking the advice of those here and getting a .22 - the fact that you're listening and taking advice means that you have a lifetime of safe enjoyment of the hobby ahead of you. You will have a hootenanny with the .22 - but all safety rules must be followed to the letter - they are extremely deadly as any firearm - like the man said, about 20x as powerful as an airgun (which can kill you). Do NOT shoot in the basement unless you really know what you're doing. Aside from ricochets which can hurt/kill you, you've got lead and powder dust exposure - lots of problems shooting indoors. But, if you wear eyes and ears, fabricate a good safe non-ricocheting backstop, use ventilation control, then I wouldn't rule it out entirely.

Shoot that .22 a lot, but it will still be like stepping up from a Tonka toy to an H1 Hummer going to the .300 maggie, recoil-wise. I suggest you take up reloading, and load some downloaded ammo, or start with some Remington reduced recoil loads if you can find them. Don't get me wrong - the recoil won't hurt you at all with one shot - it's cumulative shots in a row that start to hurt. People are spot on when they advise you to avoid the development of a flinch like the plague. It is much much easier to learn to NOT FLINCH when you are young, than it is to UN-LEARN a developed flinch when you are older. Now is your opportunity to develop good form & follow-through, without a flinch, for life.

Good luck and ask lots and lots of questions here and elsewhere.

Like they said, quit being influenced by the salesman. Find out the real deal here, and then going in knowing exactly what you want. They will sell you the kitchen sink and explain to you why you must have it to hit anything.

The non-high-roaders who ridiculed him - get a life, dudes!

P.S. You are still a "kid" - anyone under 30 is a kid to most of these old-timers, and me, too.

mr. trooper - interesting visual - thank you. The .22 lr round is nothing to trifle with. I believe it's killed more non-military personnel than any other round, when counting both homocides and accidents. IIRC.

After going to that link and a few others...I just can't believe how incredibly stupid and cruel some people are to new shooters in the sport. No I don't mean the shooters...I mean the complete morons "helping them".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iqYznDU1gY&feature=related

No instruction on how to hold the rifle...no hearing protections. Then...What kind of an idiot stands behind her and holds her head steady so she has no recoil absorbing ability. Stupid.


Another...but not as bad...but it could have been.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjMADPkivxM&NR=1

And this one really rips me....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glCFfhclrLI&feature=related

I have seen smaller people shoot larger rifles and shotguns, but they had technique, knowledge and skill...and some good natured instruction.

This girl is a bit better but still she could use some help, she is game though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_LRJZ70lEM&feature=related

And finally some idiot is so romantic that he laughs while his girl gets bit by this pistol gripped shotgun. She should beat him over the head with it and leave him stranded on the deserted road.

You know it's probably one thing with a bunch of buddies who have all shot and some one pulls out a shoulder pounder...we have all been there and done that. But...These are people that were willing to try and learn...and trusting. Their trust was abused on so many levels. Sorry this is a bit of a rant and maybe not very HighRoad of me, but it really pi$$es me off and it doesn't help the sport or our cause. Hopefully someone learns something from my post besides just laughing and takes the HighRoad with a newbie...especially if a women.

those groups were at 30 yards, and not with iron sights. I have a scope as shown in the picture. It took a while to get the scope focused perfectly. I had the zoom set to 8x. I think the scope I got isn't too great.

Zeroing the scope took 10 shots, but I wasn't sure if it was still zeroed, so I kept shooting until the shot was hitting where I wanted it to, or at least relatively close to it.

Here are pictures of the target I did that akodo gave me the link too. I did this at 25 yards, and it is hard to do I guess cuz u really have to keep it steady. I'm not sure if this is ok, good, or plain terrible. But this was my first target, in my life with a firearm, not a bb gun.

http://www.screenshots.cc/upload/02610284.jpg

http://www.screenshots.cc/upload/4c3f528a.jpg

http://www.screenshots.cc/upload/19b883a6.jpg

ok so my score was 17, that is terrible haha, but ok I can do better next time.

MikeT,
OK, first is my "We told you so"... even with a scope, it still takes skill. With that out of my blood, here it goes.

1. 8x is a bit much for that distance. Try to turn it down to about 2 - 3x. You wont notice the shake quite so much. 17.. at least you hit the target. Keep up the practice and pay attention to the things I mentioned in my last post. I say this with my last 4 ranges in the military with an m16 shooting 37 out of 40 and my machinegun (m249) shooting a lowest score of 96 out of 105. The fundamentals are key. Zeroing a sight (whatever type) means that it is hitting exactly where you intend it to. If they have a bench rest there at the range, use it to zero and have someone who has been shooting watch you. They will see your flaws long before you see/feel them. Keep shooting and have fun.

Sorry about not knowing about the scope, I am on dialup and rarely ever look at pictures.

Oh, and for group sizing, shoot three rounds at the same bullseye. Connect them with lines (form a triange) and then measure the longest side of the triangle... that is your group size. That will also tell you where the center of your group is at, which is what you want centered on the bull. You seem to be pretty consistant distance wise from the center, keep it up and get some experienced help. Practicing something wrong, which you don't even know your doing wrong, will just ingrain the habbit. The experienced shooters will also be able to tell you what worked for them, and it might help you.

Ahh....your first range experience. I remember my first time at the range, cost like $75 in ammo alone. I was just blasting away happy as can be. I had a lot of fun but on the way home it hit me that I would not be able to have very many outings of that nature if I wished to continue paying my bills. Now that you have had to foot the bill you realize one of the appeals of a .22lr; cheap ammo.

I think you have a good rifle and I am inclined to disagree with those who tell you to get another rifle. Not that I think telling someone to buy a bolt action rimfire is ever a bad idea but I think you should just concentrate on shooting the gun you have.

I think the gunshop was wrong to suggest you get a scope. I think any beginner should start off with iron sights. I just started learing to play guitar. One thing I heard at all the guitar stores was that you should start off with an acoustic because the strings are harder on your hands and it forces you to develop them. The idea being that as you start to become halfway decent you can easily transfer what you have learned to an electric guitar whereas the move from a beginner in electric to acoustic is much harder. Think of iron sights as an acoustic guitar in that sense.

Three bits of advice-

1- Try to shoot using as little magnification as possible. Sounds strange I know but trust us on this.

2- Load you magazine up to five rounds only and just shoot five round groups. See how close together you can get them. At 30 yards you should be trying to get them all to fit under a dime. Just use the factory magazine. I personally find it hard to just do five slow aimed shots so I ususally spend the first part of my range trip with a few magazines rapidly emptied just to get the urge to do so out of my system.

3- Read Jeff Cooper's "The Art of The Rifle".

Minute of Angle- Circles are 360 degrees. Each degree is divided up into 60 minutes and further into 60 seconds. If you have a protractor take a look at the space taken up by a single degree on it. Now divide that by 60. The space between two minutes of angle open up more and more the further out from the vertex and is about one inch in width at 100 yards out.

Think about that. If you are 1/60th a degree off in your aim at 100 yards you will be an inch off target. Thats just a 100 yards, you barely even have to account for wind or bullet drop at 100 yards. Imagine what it must be like to sling lead at 800 yards.

EDIT: Just saw your targets, not bad for a first time out. Not bad at all. Good job.

Thank God that those FN rifles are so damn expensive or every 18yr old Halo playing nerd would have one and the AD's and other accidents would soon follow

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Hey now, the real Halo nerds know that the gun of choice is the Kel-Tec RFB (hurry up already please and start shipping), not some crappy .223.

Aren't you glad you got a .22 now?

It's not as easy to shoot good groups as it seems, its not exactly a point&click endeavor. Keep practicing, your groups will improve as you shoot more. BTW, when you step up to the 300WM you're going to run into nervous flinch and recoil issues so don't be depressed when your groups get big again, it'll take some practice to get used to shooting a high-powered rifle accurately and not being afraid of the recoil.

Hey now, the real Halo nerds know that the gun of choice is the Kel-Tec RFB (hurry up already please and start shipping), not some crappy .223.

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Hehe, I'm still waiting for the Denel NTW-20

I think some of you are straying away form the fact that he bought a GUN. Which I think could be a great thing, considering how many more antis seem to pop up each year, he at least is venturing into something that obviously wasnt a part of his family and he may be new to guns and what not, but maybe he'll turn out to be another pro gun individual.

Hehe, I'm still waiting for the Denel NTW-20

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Yeah, but it's not semi-auto...and everyone knows how hard it is to get that second shot off before their shields recover.

Give the kid a break, at least he is interested in guns, and not admiring some liberal anti gun movie or something to that order.
The kid is on the right track, his motivation is a little troubling . Still, but better than a Michael Moore movie.

My Fist handgun was a sawed off 12 ga single bbl... kicked hard, I never shot anything more than a 22 pistol before this.
I got rid of it, got a 45 acp, then a 44 mag.

my 1st center fire rifle was a 30-30, but my 2nd one was a 300 win mag...
So I'm not much or if at all better than this kid..
We all have done the "young and dumb".

The post to me seems like a "string puller though to get our blood pressure up... think about it "AIR GUN", "SNIPER MOVIE" , READ THE SIGNS..

later
scotty

300 mag

dont worry about the recoil Theres an easy fix just find a gunsmith an call and ask for a compensator to be installed . i have a browning ecipse in 300 wsm and i can shoot it all day ...no problem..