My experience as a juror in a home invasion robbery

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I think the lesson here is just to carry a gun at all times.
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What if you live in a place where you are not legally allowed to, such as San Diego, where I believe this crime took place?

One of the many things that keeps me from moving to Southern California someday is the pit I get in my stomach when thinking about the fact I would not have the right to carry there.

God bless Oregon, for many reasons!
 
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I think the lesson here is just to carry a gun at all times.

What if you live in a place where you are not legally allowed to, such as San Diego, where I believe this crime took place?
Click to expand...

IF you can chose, live in a place that honors your 2A rights and allows you to carry. However, I believe the facts of this were that the people were initially assaulted in their home. You can carry in your home/on your private property as far as I know. Would have likely prevented much of this disasater and horrible crime and taxpayer expense of trial. ...
 
"You can carry in your home/on your private property, as far as I know"

I wonder how I'd look wearing my shoulder holstered 6" 629 while doing the dishes, or vacuuming the living room?:what: I understand what you're saying, sorry I just couldn't help myself.
 
I keep a 3.5" 1911 on my hip at home all day. I work and attend college from home, and am home a great deal more time than most (therefore my chances of being home during a robbery attempt are greater than average, although not by a whole lot). Staying armed at home is just practicing good habits as long as you're practicing safe firearms handling.
 
I was a juror on an armed home invasion. Perp was a very large man and a small woman. The house was targeted because of drugs. The dealer was operating out of his mothers house (classy) and she left her garage door open a crack for her cats to roam in and out.

Small woman squeezes under door in broad daylight, is handed a gun and told where to go and what to get. Home owners son comes home mid robbery- the lookout man outside bolts, woman inside puts a gun to the guys face when he walks in.

They struggle and she escapes, she jumps in a stolen handicap van driven by the lookout and flee crashing into a tree blocks away. Shotgun, two handguns were recovered in the vehicle. All were sentenced and are in Jail....

Lessons:
1) Never leave anything open for a cat or dog. People will get in there.
2) If you see a large man looking in your windows and then they run off as soon as you pull up. Call the police. Don't go in there unless it is the only option. Your life can depend on it.
 
3) 'Drugs', and their associated life style and social melieu, can be relied on to provide encounters with the kind of people it involves.
 
The decision making part. Were any jurors hesitant? Did any need to be convinced? If so, of what? How were they persuaded?

Or were you all in agreement in the first 5 minutes but you wanted the free lunch first?
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We had no problems with Vanna's (the female lookout) charges, guilty on every count. The first obstacle we had to overcome as a jury is to decide whether or not to accept the defense's case. They argued that there were 3 men not 2 and it was this third man who raped the wife and not him. There was only one juror who really thought there might be a third man. After several hours of reviewing evidence with her she changed her mind and we all agreed that there were only 2 men at the scene of the crime. In my mind there was a lot evidence pointing to only 2 men and 3 people altogether: 2 guns, 3 glasses and 2 people apprehended but chased a third. I figured it was impossible for 2 guys to escape the police considering they took off in different directions.

The last obstacle we faced was determining guilt of rape in concert by aiding and abetting, and somewhat related whether the wife was bound for the purpose of rape or not. This was quite contentious as we were split pretty firmly into 2 camps 4-8 or so, of which I was in the minority of him not being guilty of this charge. To simplify, he would be guilty if they had premeditated the rape. This discussion got quite heated so we took an early lunch break to cool off and come back later with clear heads. Eventually, the side I was on prevailed. We finally agreed that since there was no evidence of a planned rape, he was not guilty. The only charge he was not guilty of BTW. After that it was smooth sailing and we were pretty much done.

BTW, lunch is not free, nor is parking. So, going to jury duty actually costs money, unless you park far away, like the cheapskate that I am. So in my case the $10 I earned everyday went to my lunch. Eating lunch in downtown San Diego is not cheap. So basically I worked for food. :)

Old link not working, here's another one: http://www.10news.com/news/24782918/detail.html

However, as usual, the story doesn't have all the facts straight.
 
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So many people gripe, complain and try to get removed from jury duty. I do everything I can to get chosen for jury duty but never have. I'm a registered voter, a licensed driver with the Motor Vehicle Dept. & I own a home so I'm on the tax rolls. I've never been picked and I've been eligable for 45 years!

What gives?!? :confused::confused: Some friends have been picked 2 or 3 times and they're only 40 years old. Just not fair, I tell ya. :fire:

I'm jealous that you got such an interesting case. Some folks have a hard time setting their mind to sending a person away for many years. Was that ever on your mind?
 
The only time I got called for jury duty was when finals were approaching in school and it was going to be a 3-day a week for 4 month custody trial.

So no-can-do...

I'd love to do it but I don't have that much free time.
 
Lots of salient points brought up.

I think that one that I would highlight for those of us in suburbia with little contact with crime is that the perpetrators were folks with jobs who also commit crime.

I think when some folks speak of "career criminals" and such, that they think the criminal has no legitimate job. It sounds odd to think of it, but the perpetrators had to coordinate their work schedules to accommodate this crime.

Do not assume someone with a legitimate job, of whatever sort, does not also commit crime for money. The same guy who works hard to do whatever may just apply that work ethic to robbing and killing you.
 
#1 is survive the incident,#2 is see to it that the miscreants are UNABLE to ever do it again, #3 is worry about the court scene.
 
This is how some folks feel about carrying out of the home as well. If I can't carry a Glock 17 then I carry nothing. I carry something pretty much 24x7. Sometimes it's a NAA 22LR, other times it's a P-32 (usually), and sometimes it's something much heavier duty. The bottom line is that even a .22LR up close and personal is better than struggling with bare hands. Having a gun gives you the opportunity to get to a larger gun(s) hidden away through the house.

The mods are probably gonna get P***ed over this one, but it's a hell of a lot better being judged by 12 than carried by 6 or go through hospital bills and a lifetime of therapy. San Diego or not...


788Ham
"You can carry in your home/on your private property, as far as I know"

I wonder how I'd look wearing my shoulder holstered 6" 629 while doing the dishes, or vacuuming the living room?:what: I understand what you're saying, sorry I just couldn't help myself.
Click to expand...
 
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I need to get some carpentry and electrical work done before the weather turns and don't have the time to crank it out myself.

I avoid hiring any contractor, however, that I don't either know persoanally or with whom I'm aquainted via. church and know of their family / reputation.

Bargain shopping doesn't pay well enough to compromise "who comes on my property".

In this story, the contractor was "recommended" by a family member. But that proved a poor substitute for personal knowledge.

Fortunately, I know a lot of contractor type guys.

I cringe at the thought of bringing someone on sight who I don't know. Active participation in church affords an opportunity to meet a lot of very nice, honest and decent people.
 
Active participation in church affords an opportunity to meet a lot of very nice, honest and decent people.
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The act of going to mass does not prevent one from behaving in a "evil" manner, nor does it prevent one from having such thoughts.
I don't dare tell anyone what to believe, nor what to do, but I just want to point out that a wolf in sheeps clothing is still a wolf, regardless of the pasture.
 
I am going to show this to certain co-workers that believe carrying a gun will cause more problems than help anything.
 
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Some folks have a hard time setting their mind to sending a person away for many years. Was that ever on your mind?
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Not really, when I heard how many charges there were and as the evidence piled up against them I figured she would get a long time and he would probably spend the rest of his life in prison.

I take a practical view towards it: if they're guilty, they're guilty, if they're not, they're not. It's not up to me to decide the punishment.
 
Wow. Good stuff. I was a juror on a murder trial a few years ago. It changed my perspective a little bit on gun regulation in ways I am still coming to terms with.

In our case, it was not a lack of guns to protect themselves, it was an overabundance of firearms. The problem though was the organic components of the equation, one was suffering from SEVERE postpartum depression, the other was a slightly inebriated individual sick of getting beat down by the mentally ill individual. The result was tragic and left a disabled newborn child without a mother and with his father in prison. That deliberation was one of the toughest things I have gone through.

Knowing people like that have a multitude of loaded handguns (they had them unsecured, all over the place), made me an advocate of restrictions on firearm ownership for folks dealing with severe mental issues but also an advocate for more firearm ownership for law abiding citizens, free from serious mental illness.

BTW, as a heads up, this was in suburbia and after the defendant killed his wife, we took 3 guns including the murder weapon with him to Walmart and sat in the parking lot for 8 hours trying to figure out what to do.
 
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