Most 1911 for the money

However, since you're in a defensive mood would you care to explain why S&W machines out the slots for the Swarz safety in all their frames. Why do they put an unnecessary gap in the inside of the frame on the E-series guns?

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Economy of scale...

There's nothing defensive in my post. I stated external extractors work when properly implemented.

I don't know why the frame is machined out, I have theorized it has something to do with economy of scales and eventually including California customers looking for an E-Series. Perhaps they haven't reprogrammed yet. Ask them.

I put no words in your mouth, I stated my opinion that an external extractor is a valid choice. You prefer the "original" internal and detail cleaning needing only a few tools. I prefer a squirt of Gunscrubber and being done.

Have a look at all those pre1911 models upon which the pistol is based and take note of the "original" Colt automatic pistol extractor.

I'm not sure when any of this became about you...

That was quick rella! I guess I type too much.

That was quick rella! I guess I type too much.

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LOL

I think you gave a much more meaningful and detailed explaination.

I took your other post as a joke. I personally am not big fan of the external extractor on 1911s. I have owned S&Ws and a Sig GSR which had them and they worked but I perfer the internal more for looks and tradition than anything else.

My GSRs exctractor pin did walk out on me. I had to get the factory to repair and replace it.

Why do they put an unnecessary gap in the inside of the frame on the E-series guns?

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what unnecessary gap?

what unnecessary gap?

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I believe he is referring to the gap which is needed for the schwartz saftey which is still present on the frame of E series guns even though they are "70 series" guns which do not have a drop safety system.

^^ahh i see.

i wasn't sure he if was maybe referring to the frame rail gap some 1911's have on the left side.


like you guys mentioned before, it must be more economical, rather than machining the e-series different than all other models. always comes down to the bucks lol

rellascout said:

I personally am not big fan of the external extractor on 1911s. I have owned S&Ws and a Sig GSR which had them and they worked but I perfer the internal more for looks and tradition than anything else.

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This is my view as well. Nothing questioning the reliability of them, but it's just not following the 1911 design IMHO with an external extractor. Again, not that veering from the original design is necessarily a bad thing (look at beaver tails, mag wells, rails, and other tacticool stuff they do nowadays).

I guess I got a Series 70 Repro for a reason

If I was in the market right now for this gun I would stretch the budget just a bit. There is a guy on the Sig Forum selling a LNIB Dan Wesson RZ Heritage with fixed sights, front night dot for $975 shipped. That the a lot of 1911 for under $1000.

Hi crackshot,

I'd probably see if I could get a used Colt Gold Cup in that range. They list for $1400, so that shouldn't be out of the question.

If you'd rather have something more historically accurate, I've seen a Colt 100th Anniversary 1911 for $1100. Outstanding level of finish; just a basic, but well-built gun.

I own Colts, Springfields, and a Remington. I recommend any of them. Only two of them cost more than $800 (a Colt XSE and a Springfield I had Novak work on). Also, all but two of them are as close to GI as their manufacturers make. I think the Springfields and the Remington were under $700, actually....

G27RR said:

Springfield Range Officer

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How many rounds do you have though it? How well does it shoot?

I have one on order but my dealer is small time (low volume and markup) so it may be a while before it ships.

Clutch

RIA imports from the Philippines (Of course an anti-gun rights country)

clutch said:

How many rounds do you have though it? How well does it shoot?

I have one on order but my dealer is small time (low volume and markup) so it may be a while before it ships.

Clutch

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In short, it shoots very, very well. I am up to 800 rounds or so.

I wrote a review here...

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=578842

and a followup where I changed the sights for personal preference and concealed carry...

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=581373

It now looks like this...

For $800 or under I'd say your best bet is an STI Spartan which would have you around $200 under budget, compare one directly to any other $1000-1200 1911 out there and it'll be as good, if not better than all but one: an STI Trojan (about $1000, dollar for dollar THE best 1911 for tge money period, better than guns costing 3 times as much).
The Springfield "Range Officer" is almost as good as a Spartan but will eat up all $800 of your budget and will not really be worth it compared to what you get in the fantastic Armscor/STI hybrid that is the Spartan.

Reading all these posts I just gotta say it: the Ruger SR1911 is a POS, if you think that's a good 1911 for the money you've got to be kidding, it's half the gun a $400+ RIA /Armscor Tactical is for twice the money.


Speaking of the RIA's, at around $400 for their Tactical model you could add all EGW, STI, SV/Infinity or Cylinder & Slide fire control stuff (sear, disconnector, hammer) which is top-shelf, put in any safeties you like, any trigger you like, whatever grips you like, and better sights for under $800 that would out perform every model mentioned so far up to twice your budget and be YOURS, just as you want it. If you plan on shooting it more than shining it, this is the best way to go by far, get a good base gun and upgrade as you choose and can afford to, 1911 parts a actually fairly cheap and none of the upgrades are rocket-science, especially in the era of YouTube and Google.

P.S. - Those who think an external extractor is inferior somehow are 100% wrong. It's understandable if one doesn't like it ascetically or due to the break from tradition, but understand this: for pure performance/function the best 1911 extractor available is an AFTEC (costs about $80 plus one needs to have it installed) which uses springs for tension and to avoid wear, guess what, it mimics an external extractor which is the same thing except more robust and reliable. Now, the problem is that for whatever reason tge same 1911's that feature external extractors these days also have firing-pin-blocks too, which actually do suck and mess up a good 1911 design...

other 1911's i've shot, and impressed me were:

Metro Arms Classic. it's another Filipino 1911, basically a souped up RIA. it's almsot as nice as my Taurus, for about $200 less.

Springfield M1911A1. my girlfriend has one in stainless steel. brand new, you can find them for $600-800. used, around $400. it shoots like cotton candy.

RIA Tactical. my buddy bought his 2 years ago. when he first got it, there was a problem with the extractor. he called the company, and the president of the company took his call, got his info, and not only sent him a new extractor, but a box containing every spare part he'd most likely need over the next few years. he then called him a few weeks later, to make sure he got it, and to see if the gun was working properly, which it was. i've only ever heard of that kind of customer service from Smith & Wesson, when i had issues with a Sigma i had. you won't get that from Colt.

Ck, what was it about shooting the Ruger 1911 you found so objectionable? Also, for that AFTEC extractor, where can I find one, seems even the high end companies have overlooked it (to save $$$?).

P.S. The S&W E-Series does not have a firing pin block but it does have an external extractor.

P.P.S. Find a Sig 1911 and set it side by side with an RIA and tell me honestly which trigger is lighter, crisper and preferred by you. It has a firing pin block AND a very nice trigger.

off topic, but Sig 1911s are effin hot.

Skylerbone said:

Ck, what was it about shooting the Ruger 1911 you found so objectionable? Also, for that AFTEC extractor, where can I find one, seems even the high end companies have overlooked it (to save $$$?).

P.S. The S&W E-Series does not have a firing pin block but it does have an external extractor.

P.P.S. Find a Sig 1911 and set it side by side with an RIA and tell me honestly which trigger is lighter, crisper and preferred by you. It has a firing pin block AND a very nice trigger.

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Shooting the Ruger my impression was just simply "meh", there's just nothing particularly great about them, the parts and controls are all low-end and kind of poorly fit, maybe it's just the fact that the dumb-a$$ at my local gun shop kept repeating how it's "made in the USA" over and over... I'm all for buying made in the USA, but overpaying for a mediocre slide, frame, and barrel filled with junk MIM parts that pretty much all need to be replaced is not exactly my idea of patriotism, that's all.

Really, compare an STI Spartan to the Ruger and try to explain to me what possibly justifies the Ruger being $200 more..? The STI's firing control internals and hammer are S-7 tool steel, the trigger is the same one that comes on their high-end models, but most importantly it's put together properly, 3 to 4 times as good as any of the Rugers I've seen, the frames, slides, and barrels come from RIA/Armscor in the Philippines and the guns are put together there by their best gunsmiths, then shipped to STI in Texas (which is in the USA I think) for final inspection and additional fitting and tuning as needed. If anything the Spartan should be $200 more than the Ruger...

Here is where you can get an AFTEC: http://www.brownells.com/1/1/20564-...xtractor-fits-45-acp-millenium-custom-ii.html

That's cool about the S&W E-series having the external extractor but not having the firing pin blocks, I was not aware of that. That's actually a great set-up for someone who wants a really reliable 1911 that has to see some adverse conditions.

As, for A Sig 1911's trigger being any better than an RIA's, or any other 1911's for that matter, frankly, that just sounds naive.
How good a particular 1911's trigger is has absolutely zero to do with which manufacturer it came frame, in fact, at the price-point we're discussing it has WAY more to do with luck than anything else. A 1911 gets a good trigger through know-how and quality parts mixed with a little luck, period. If the fire control parts parts are fitted well and fit together correctly, all rough surfaces are polished and the sear spring is bent just-so, then the trigger will be good, it has nothing to do with the name on the slide. Quality parts add to "crispness" and the lightness that can be attained as well as how long the trigger will remain consistent and stay that way. Even if a Sig 1911's trigger is the best you've ever felt, if it doesn't have a quality tool steel sear and hammer then it's going to be mushy and crummy after 3-5000rds (or even dry-fires) and it'll need new parts to be redone.

My point is that it seems many shooters just don't realize that the majority of 1911 parts are actually fairly cheap, even the top-shelf stuff, and 99% of installing/upgrading them doesn't require a gunsmith... so overpaying for what is really a lower-end 1911 when really all you need is a quality frame, slide, and barrel is foolish. JMHO.

For $800 you could almost get two RIAs or two American classic lls. 45 acp and 9mm in the 1911 are great shooters and you could get one of each. Kinda depends on how many rounds down range you plan on shooting each week and or your intended purpose. The only RIA I have seen have problems feeding was a full size that after I got the owner to polish the feed ramp and change the mag their problem was fixed. Most of the above mentioned work out of the box and the owners I know are pleased with their purchase. I do like the finish on the American Classic ll better than the RIA but both seem to keep their owners happy. A couple of LEOs in Houston who had Kimbers after seeing and shooting the American Classic ll swore they were going to pick one up for a second 1911. Like everything you can get a cheap *** or a really expensive *** that is why it is always best to find a place that lets you shoot before purchase.

Internal extractor +1

I hear buy more expensive for resale all the time but those I know who have had to sell their RIAs have been able to sell for what they paid for them and in some cases a few dollars more. You think you need a pistol for HD and are on a budget are you going to spend $1500 or $400 for something that works when you pull the trigger?

Again more expensive usually means better quality parts and something that should last longer between fixes or parts replacement. However very few shoot enough to be ever confronted with "time to replace an extractor" much less something else. Parts are not that expensive even if! Price of ammo in 9mm versus 45acp plus commonality of weapon might be another consideration for the purchase of two instead of one weapon.

I agree with many of the above posted recommendations; all seem to get the job done; my post is more of "for your consideration" type post.

Sigs custom shop turns out all their 1911s and the MIM part count is 0. I do understand people wanting specific parts for their 1911, Heine sights, memory groove grip safeties and the like but consider this: custom shop Sig, forged frame, premium internal parts, match barrel, beavertail GS, 4.5 lb. Match trigger, dehorned, night sights, excellent fit and finish, $822. Comparing it to say a $500 RIA and adding parts? You'll never be money ahead and unless you've got some considerable skill, tools and time you'll likely just have 2 parts piles. I dare say the Sig will also fare better on the used market. I don't consider myself naive. I've felt better triggers than the Sig in numerous custom shop 1911s (Harrison, Clark, Springfield CS, etc...) but few in it's price range come close. I'll also disagree about 99% of 1911 parts not needing a smith for installation. If any 6 year old could do it then every factory example should be perfect and there wouldn't be a custom market. I've fit a few parts before and the 1911 is not a Glock.

I've got a Desert Eagle 1911G and I just love it. $650 or so. Tight, accurate, all the things you need and none of the crap you don't. If you can get past the billboard on the left of the slide, it's a great piece.

P>S> was hitting empty 12 g hulls at 10 yards easy. Never had a 1911 that could do that before.

RIA imports from the Philippines (Of course an anti-gun rights country)

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On paper it might be anit-gun rights but on the street I saw plenty. Trike drivers with M-16's, regular people with .38 revolvers and a plethora of 1911's. Shooting sports is pretty popular over there with the people that can afford it and they love the 1911.

On paper it might be anit-gun rights but on the street I saw plenty. Trike drivers with M-16's, regular people with .38 revolvers and a plethora of 1911's. Shooting sports is pretty popular over there with the people that can afford it and they love the 1911.

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Gotta put it all in perspective. You can still acquire weapons legally, and you can still get licenses to carry legally. There are lots of regulations and rules and other crap, and most people don't go the legal route since its expensive, but the fact is this: you can legally get full autos, and you can legally carry a weapon if you're willing to jump through the hoops. Hell, you can get a permit to carry a full auto, I remember reading an article about a journalist who packed an UZI (no such thing as a semi auto uzi in the phils) to protect himself against potential assassins, since it isn't uncommon for reporters to be targeted by hitmen

I can't think of very many non american nations that allow CCW, and I can't think of very many that allow full auto weapons either. And I definitely don't know any nations that allow CCW of full auto weapons.

EDIT: Found the article: http://www.ajr.org/article.asp?id=3969