Yet Another Crimp Question... (.223 necks for AR-15)

i do not crimp any of my AR loads which includes 223 Rem, 17 Rem and 204 Ruger. Also no crimp on M1 and M1A loads.

I adjust my seater dies so that the internal crimp is not in play. I raise a case to top dead center on the ram of the press. Turn the die down until the crimp ring contacts the case. Then back it off a turn or two.

After locking the lock ring, I set the seating depth.

If the neck tension is adequate, crimping is not necessary.

In my opinion, the Lee FCD die is a solution looking for a problem. There are folks that like the die.

If I were to crimp, I would use a rifle taper crimp die in a separate step. Lots of folks have success crimping with the seater die in the seating step.

This is not meant to be a crimp vs no crimp comment. But the problems with crimping go away if you don't crimp. Even if the bullet has a cannelure, you do not have to crimp.

Likewise, this isn't meant to be a crimp/don't crimp arguement, but I don't crimp my 223 loads for my AR or my Mini. I shoot High Power and almost all the guys shoot AR's. None of them crimp.
You say you had no reason to crimp til now. What's the reason out of curiousity?

35W

In

my opinion, the Lee FCD die is a solution looking for a problem. There are folks that like the die.

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I agree with cfullgraf on this. I have not found the need for a FCD in 1,000's of reloaded 223 match ammo in all bullet weights. I would also venture to say I have tougher requirements for my ammo. If a round screws up it could cost me points and I will not have this. If The FCD did any good then it would be the rave with the High Power shooters, but for some reason is not. HMMMM Pistol shooters seem to like it, but again I have not found a use for it when loading pistol rounds. Ido see the FCD damaging a bullets jacket in an effort to keep the bullet from set back. But the FCD makes problems show up in other places. IMHO.

Yes your seating die will apply a crimp if set up to. By raising or lowering the seating die one can adjust the amount of crimp from none to way to much. Both dies you show should be doing a taper crimp for rifles. A roll crimp is used mostly for revolvers.

The Lee FCD not only crimps the case mouth but also sizes the case to factory dimensions. This means it will crimp and flatten any bulge that may have been created during the case mouth belling, or bullet seating process. The seater die dose not return the case to factory dimensions it only seats the bullet and applies a crimp to the case mouth if set.

When using the Lee FCD set the bullet seating die for no crimp, just use it to seat the bullet. The FCD will take care of the rest.

Now as to crimp or not is debated a lot as you can tell by your post as 3 guys have posted about crimping but none have answered your questions. There is some research that suggests that a crimped bullet has a more uniform pressure curve and that crimping dose increase accuracy. Your best bet here is do some research and make your own conclusions. I like to Lee FCD my AR 223 rounds as well as my .40 rounds. These two rounds are my defense and go to weapons so I want them to feed reliably in multiple weapons. I also crimp my hard shooting 44 mag revolver rounds.

I crimp all of my semi-auto ammo with the Lee Factory Crimp die. It holds the bullets secure and Improves accuracy. If you have one with your Lee Die set, give it a try.

Here is an accuracy test with the LFCD vs No crimp. As you can see the LFCD does improve accuracy. Click on the Home Page at the bottom to see who ran the test.

http://www.accuratereloading.com/crimping.html

steve4102 said:

Here is an accuracy test with the LFCD vs No crimp. As you can see the LFCD does improve accuracy. Click on the Home Page at the bottom to see who ran the test.

http://www.accuratereloading.com/crimping.html

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Trouble with the article is the sample sizes are too small to give good, reliable statistical results.

I agree with P32 and 35 Whelen, if the Lee FCD really improved accuracy, it would be standard equipment with most target shooters.

The Lee FCD not only crimps the case mouth but also sizes the case to factory dimensions.

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The pistol die does that.

But the OP ask about the .223 rifle FCD.

It doesn't do anything except crimp the case to the bullet using a collet.

I have run my own accuracy tests using it in an AR-15 and a CZ-527.
If there is any improvement, it is too small to measure in both my guns.

rc

For your application - 50 yards and I assume generous targets - I would just set the seating die to put a roll crimp into the bullet cannelure. No setback, no jam, no Internet Agonizing. It may not be what the guys do for 200, 300, 600 yards with uncannelured match bullets, but so what?

As far as the accuracy aspect, one only needs to look to the benchrest fraternity. I assure you they do NOT crimp bullets. But if it would increase accuracy, they would.

Maybe I'm misinformed, or assuming too much, but...
- safety: bullet setback in recoil causing over pressure
- some kind of jam or lockup from bullet moving around
- as P-32 said, costing me points in a match, along with incovenience of others

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If your bullets setback, you have other problems, such as an expander ball that's too large. I've been handloading for about 30 years and the only rifle bullets I've crimped are those used in tubular magazines such as the 30-30, 375 Winchester and 45-70. I typically fire rifles that generate enough recoil to deform a lead tipped bullet, but the bullets never budge. My 35 Whelen, in which I fired Barnes TSX bullets, generates more than enough recoil to bash the bullets into the front of the magazine but again, I've never had a bullet move. Ditto for my Garand. Honestly, I don't think a .223 will generate nearly enough recoil to move a bullet. I know mine don't.

35W

I use a Lee FCD in 8x57mm for my Yugo M76 because the feed ramp / action interaction is brutal, to say the least. (So is the extraction / ejection process, I have a 5-10% loss rate on each generation of brass.. it's depressing).

Anyway, when I crimp 8x57mm ammunition with the Lee FCD, my groups DOUBLE in size.

For THAT rifle it's necessary.

But, if you don't have a pressing need....

i have a t/c contender so bullet movement is not a problem, and i found that my .223s with out a crimp are more accurate than the crimped ones. just my 2 cents worth.