2400 in 38spl ?

Probably okay with a 6"bbl, IF you can find loading data. I'm not familiar with " Keith type" but Lymans #49 manual doesn't show 2400 data for their 170 gr lead S/wc bullets.

Sorry, not much help.

To be honest with you, no. The data is there, you can load it. It will go bang and the bullet will probably go where you aimed it. It will be dirty and have lots of unburned powder. Its not an optimum powder for the caliber.

I tried it once, in fact, there is a thread here that I started about it. I could dig up the load data that I used with 158gr SWCs, but again, I found it sub standard. It was more or less something I wanted to do to satisfy my curiousity. I do know that in a pinch that 8lbs of 2400 I have would work just fine in 38s.

What does work well though, if you can keep them seperated or if you only have 357 mag revolvers is 357 level loads in 38 cases with 2400. I load some that way just to save the abuse on my 357 cases that cost more. Special care MUST be taken if you do this, the same as loading overpressure 45 colt loads. You dont want it to find its way in the wrong gun.

Lyman does list a 158 grain load with 2400; 8.4 starting and 9.4 max. I plugged it into quickload and got about 8.5 grains max for a 170 grain bullet. Should give you an idea for a starting point. Proceed with caution of course since this isn't a published load.

Actually when I first loaded 38 special using a LEE loader ( whack_A_Mole)
The load data that came with the loader had a load for 158 gr swc start was 6.7gr and max was 7.5gr.

I loaded up some at 6.7 gr. to shoot in my 357 mag snubby.

This was not a good load at all. Way too dirty with lots and lots of unburned powder. they just went pop instead of bang.
I went and got a can of Bullseye and saved the 2400 for magnum loads.

if you go back and look at some OLD Lyman manuals you will find some 38 special loads using 2400 however they were intended to be used only in the S & W ("N" frame) heavy duty revolvers. these loads were what lead to the 357 magnum. I don't think I would shoot them in a M-10 though as they are quite hot by today's standard for the 38 special. the 170 gr swc is a good bullet and for use in the M-10 I would use Unique as the powder of choice

According to manual I used when I was younger, lyman's 45 edition,
the 168 gr. mold # 358429 is loaded with 8.0gr min for 700fps and 10.5gr for max at 1005fps with 2400

The accuracy load for the 168 gr cast is listed as 2400 powder 8.0gr at 700fps.

That's close enough to a 170gr. I wouldn't worry about the 2gr. different.

Make sure you have really good neck tension and crimp it in really tight and it should shoot just fine.

Good luck.

The test gun used for testing the above load according to the manual was a K-38 masterpiece S&W.
Stick with 8.0 gr and a heavy crimp and you should be fine.

I'm trying to remember, there was something with the Elmer Keith bullets that you need to know.

Oh yea, you better load a dummy round using the crimp groove and cycle it around your model 10 to make sure it clears the barrel.
Some of the Elmer Keith designed bullets wouldn't clear the barrel on a S&W with out trimming the nose of the bullet. The cylinders were to short.

I don't think the 170 gr was one of them but you better try one before loading any.

#2400 was one of Elmer's favorite powders, and he loaded it in almost everything from .38 Special up. But the revolvers he used were heavy framed ones, such as N-frame Smith & Wesson's and Colt Single Action Army's. In a K-frame you are going to have a problem because at pressures that won't over strain the gun the powder won't burn well. I would choose something different.

if you go back and look at some OLD Lyman manuals you will find some 38 special loads using 2400 however they were intended to be used only in the S & W ("N" frame) heavy duty revolvers. these loads were what lead to the 357 magnum. I don't think I would shoot them in a M-10 though as they are quite hot by today's standard for the 38 special. the 170 gr swc is a good bullet and for use in the M-10 I would use Unique as the powder of choice

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That would be 38/44 data. There is actual 38 special data for 2400, its just a poor combination that doesnt burn well.

I tried 2400 in .38 Special ammo and did not like the results. There was so much dirt and flakes at the lower pressures it was a mess. It even bound the cylinder because the flakes got under the ejector.

There are so many good powder for the .38 Special these days it's not worth using 2400 IMO.

CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The High Road, nor the staff of THR assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.

My 1996 Alliant manual shows some loads of this type.

160gr JSP, 7.6gr 2400 (7.8 +P).
200gr LRN 7.0gr 2400 (7.1 +P)

Lyman 44th

168gr Lead 8gr 2400 starting, 10.5gr max.

I HAVE NEVER READ SUCH MIS-INFORMATION on the 38SPL cartridge and 2400 propellent in my life !!!!
Used correctly it is SUPERB in the 38SPL cartridge. It is EASILY the best high performance propellet in the 38SPL cartridge.
FURTHEREMORE, the comment on cartridge length with the358429 KEITH bullet is completely off base as it will fit in ANY 38SPL SAAMI SPEC chamber.
It will not do so loaded in the 357MAG cartridge in some, not all, 357MAG SAAMI spec chambers.

I HAVE NEVER READ SUCH MIS-INFORMATION on the 38SPL cartridge and 2400 propellent in my life !!!!
Used correctly it is SUPERB in the 38SPL cartridge. It is EASILY the best high performance propellet in the 38SPL cartridge.
FURTHEREMORE, the comment on cartridge length with the358429 KEITH bullet is completely off base as it will fit in ANY 38SPL SAAMI SPEC chamber.
It will not do so loaded in the 357MAG cartridge in some, not all, 357MAG SAAMI spec chambers.

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Ok, i'll bite. I actually tested it, did you bother to read? My results were exact opposite of what you claim. No, its not the best, not even close. Not even for +p.

Wil...You'll notice that I tweaked your post a bit. Step back and take a breath.

If I may...

2400 is one of only three pistol powders that I've used for the better part of 3 decades, and one of those I've recently started to use again after a 20-year sabbatical.

I've used 2400 for heavy .38 Special loads. In those, it's very good...but I don't advise using them in small or medium-framed revolvers.


In charges that don't exceed SAAMI standards for the cartridge, it doesn't perform as well as quicker powders. The chronograph shows wildly inconsistent velocities and a lot of unburned powder. The pressures just don't reach the level that it needs to burn it efficiently or consistently. Add enough to get the pressures into the optimum range, and you're well into .38-44 territory, and that's just a bit...rambunctious...for much use in a Model 10, and the Model 10 is, after all, the subject of the question.

Now, if you can find an old Smith .38-44 Heavy Duty or a Colt Woodsman, by all means...enjoy.

ljnowell said:

Ok, i'll bite. I actually tested it, did you bother to read? My results were exact opposite of what you claim. No, its not the best, not even close. Not even for +p.

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I tested it in a Ballistics Lab, not to mention the two dozen guns or so we ran through the paces.

I tested it in a Ballistics Lab, not to mention the two dozen guns or so we ran through the paces.

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Doesnt really matter. Just being honest about it because I tested it myself. 2400 at 38 special velocities is not a clean burning powder, does not give consistent numbers and is not optimum. Your statement that its the best performance powder ever in 38 special is simply not true. There are many more powders that will provide consistent velocity, ES, and SD numbers and will do so without fouling the crap out of a gun.

If you were going to load over pressure loads, I'm sure it would work fine.

This is one of those reloading "What If" deals in which the powder just doesn't perform well in the internal space of that cartridge. It can't build enough pressure to efficiently ignite and burn the powder due to the length of time it has to do so. Even though a 38 spcl. is not much shorter than a .357 mag case, the difference is significant given the decreased time the powder is confined before the bullet leaves the mouth during ignition.

If you do procede to try it I would recomend using a magnum primer, seat deep, stuff as much powder into the case as can be compressed, and use the tightest roll crimp you can possibly get without crushing the case. But even then, your still going to end up with a very dirty burn at best, and internal ballistics are going to be all over the place. And your going to have to keep a very watchful eye out for squibs due to the high probability of the powder not completey igniting, due to the pressure curve having multiple shoulders and spikes resulting in the bullet nearly, or completely stopping and then restarting as it travels down the barrel. And accuracy will be in the trash can.

There are many cases and powders that are not compatable with each other and trying to use those noncompatable components is futile, and a waste of good bullets and powder. There is also the very high risk of destroying a firearm and suffering personal injury in a worst case circumstance.

GS

The OP already decided not to use 2400 so you guys can stop the pissing contest already. Calm down gentlemen, it's is a discussion, not a life and death situation. Everyone has an opinion and everyone has a right to their own.

This is one of those reloading "What If" deals in which the powder just doesn't perform well in the internal space of that cartridge. It can't build enough pressure to efficiently ignite and burn the powder due to the length of time it has to do so. Even though a 38 spcl. is not much shorter than a .357 mag case, the difference is significant given the decreased time the powder is confined before the bullet leaves the mouth during ignition.

If you do procede to try it I would recomend using a magnum primer, seat deep, stuff as much powder into the case as can be compressed, and use the tightest roll crimp you can possibly get without crushing the case. But even then, your still going to end up with a very dirty burn at best, and internal ballistics are going to be all over the place. And your going to have to keep a very watchful eye out for squibs due to the high probability of the powder not completey igniting, due to the pressure curve having multiple shoulders and spikes resulting in the bullet nearly, or completely stopping and then restarting as it travels down the barrel. And accuracy will be in the trash can.

There are many cases and powders that are not compatable with each other and trying to use those noncompatable components is futile, and a waste of good bullets and powder. There is also the very high risk of destroying a firearm and suffering personal injury in a worst case circumstance.

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You just recomended that he blow up a gun. Case capacity isnt a problem, its the operating pressure of the 38 special. I loaded it in 38 cases and tested in a 357. I went ahead and loaded until it was in 357 mag range and there it performs just fine.