range accuracy vs. field accuracy

3" group off-hand at 50 yards is pretty good. Here in Oregon, the shooting standard for the "Master Hunter" program is "five rounds from an unsupported position (offhand or sitting or kneeling) at a eight inch diameter target at 100 yards. Four out of the five rounds must hit within the circle."

For me, I practice a variety of shooting positions at different distances using paper plates, then cut the practice difference in half for my maximum hunting distance. So let's say I can hit a paper plate virtually every time at 150 yards off hand, and 300 yards prone. I then consider my max off-hand hunting distance to be 75 yards and my max prone hunting shot to be about 150 yards.

Some might consider that a bit conservative, but it's a rule of thumb that has served me well. I respect animals and do not believe in animal cruelty. I consider it my responsibility to make sure of a clean hit and a swift death. Plus I think it makes the meat taste better.

Tony k said:

I respect animals and do not believe in animal cruelty. I consider it my responsibility to make sure of a clean hit and a swift death. Plus I think it makes the meat taste better.

Click to expand...

As it should be. And it does!

I think shooting at targets makes people good shooters. The more you practice, the better you get. As for hunting, well, it is just the same.

I have taken more deer than I can count by memory (I'm only 35), but I am just an average shot, or maybe just a little above average if you consider the real average, not firing range aficionado average.

The kill zone on a deer is bigger than a 1" group at 100 yards.

I killed all of them standing, without any kind of rest, except for one, which I killed when I was sitting, drinking a coffee and smoking a cigarette, which I held in my mouth for the shot moment. Yes, for real.

Most of them were killed while I was walking, and the vast majority was running, some real fast.

The key, to me, seems to shoot them when they are close (I know it sounds stupid, but it works). Let's say, within 75 yards, within 50 is even better. One has to walk to get there.

I did kill some deer running fast at 130 yards, but I was glad to shoot a semi that time. Not sportive, some will argue. Well, while I fully agree in principle, I must also protest that I shoot deer for meat in practical (don't care about the size of that rack); for sport, well, I play tennis.

There is one thing that comes out of my hunting experience: don't think about it, just shoot the deer.

Quite often, when I took time to think about a shot, to hope for a better shot, to judge a distance, to care about the wind, to do anything at all but shoot, I missed.

Oh, and yes, if you don't shoot, you are absolutely sure not to hit the deer.

So shoot the deer!

As most have said, that depends. First, it depends on your shooting skill, as well as your shooting knowledge. The more you know about shooting from field positions, like sitting, kneeling, prone, and all the hundreds of possible improvised rests, the better you'll do.

The next is a mental issue. How steady are your nerves under stress? If the answer is "Not very," then there are still things you can do to help. For a sport shooting perspective, try Lanny Bassham's book "With Winning in Mind," also, there are a number of good books written for golfers about how to get your brain to cooperate, and help you make shots when you need to.

So while you're unlikely to ever shoot as well in the field as you do at the range, the better prepared you are, the closer you'll get to it.

As Jeff Cooper said: "Blessed is he who, in time of stress, can focus on the front sight."

Actually focusing on the front sight can take too long at times but not often. I'll tell the kind of practice shooting we used to do. We shot flying bats with a .22. A flying bat is about the toughest target you can find. They change direction very, very often which means you have to locate their direction, aim in the general direction, lead them the correct amount and fire all in the space of about half a second. I've shot lots of bats that way. That's field shooting. Some might think shooting bats is cruel but they are dangerous and destructive critters who carry rabies and will destroy your house if they nest in the attic. And if they nest in the chimney they will defend their turf. It's illegal to shoot certain types of bats now so be sure you aren't shooting those. But for us as teenagers they were the perfect targets. We learned to shoot them with shotguns then discovered we could hit them with .22's. Any time you can get in PRACTICE shooting a target like that your field shooting will get better and the more you practice the better you get as long as you are practicing good things. If you practice bad habits you actually get worse as a shooter.

Wow. That's a lot of old myths about bats packed into one post. Some kind of record, I think.

Cruel? Depends on your ethics, I guess. Ignorant, dangerous, and possibly illegal? Sure.

Maybe if you can hit them with .22 shotshells it might be safe. Still a bad idea. They CAN ruin your roof though. My in laws had a 4000 square ft house that is now a foundation due to bats in the roof. (Well technically they only destroyed the roof, which the contractor left uncovered in the rain, resulting in black mold throughout the walls).

Personally, I think competition shooting is one of the best ways to get good. Let's you practice shooting technique under pressure. Paintball is another fun way to do that, although the poor accuracy of paintball guns drives me nuts...

sam1911 said it more politely than i could.

So yeah, anyway. I don't know much about bat hunting, but in the rest of the world, the front sight is a good thing, should your rifle have irons, instead of glass.

Well let's see about my "old myths". 1% of bats are infected with rabies. I never said "all" bats had it but they certainly do carry the disease enough to make it a serious concern. They also nest in places like chimneys, walls and attics. Again where's the myth? Do they defend their nesting area? All I can say is that I've seen them harass people that get too close to their roosting area during the time they have young. They will fly past your head again and again. I've seen reports on the local tv station of people being bitten by bats that were roosting in their chimney. I certainly didn't see that happen but the person was bitten by a bat and there were a number of bats roosting in their chimney. You might get a PC, animal rights type "expert" to tell you they never defend their roosting area but I've seen them in action. I had a bat living in my chimney and it would fly within about 3 feet of my head (always coming from the rear) time after time. I shot that bat.

So you experts may want to learn something from someone who has seen not only bats defending their roost (although I've never seen one bite or try to bite anyone again I did hear about such an incident on the local tv station) but I've also seen the results of bats invading an attic. I've seen ceilings sag from the weight of bat droppings. I've smelled the horrid smell too. And yes I know the proper way to keep bats out of your attic. It wasn't my house. It was an old one room school I saw that had the sagging ceilings.

I don't want to argue the point but I've seen many theories of the so called educated on wildlife issues be totally and completely wrong. From the range of animals to the existence of other animals that aren't even acknowledged by the "experts" I've seen time after time where they were wrong. For example I saw a blue ribbon snake in eastern Kentucky. Ribbon snakes aren't supposed to live in eastern Kentucky at all and there aren't supposed to be any bright blue ones. I would have caught it but they are fast as lightning (I tried to follow it but it out ran me when I was about 12 years old. It took off through our garden and I lost ground on it before it made it's way out of the garden on the other end. I've also seen a blue racer in eastern Ohio even though they aren't supposed to live there. Black racers are supposed to be the only species of that type in that region but I know the difference between black and cold steel gray. I've seen other examples but the point is made. I've seen many, many wrong ideas about animals on tv actually not to mention politics. For example I saw a Georgetown University professor of history deny that Islam was spread through violence too. You hear "experts" say all sorts of ridiculous stuff.

Nothing I said in that post was an "old myth". Yes we shot bats with impunity when I was young but we were following the directions of my father for the most part. He didn't want the bats roosting in his house so we shot them. I did shoot one as an adult. I've already explained why I did that.

And back40, you weren't exactly polite in your post as it exists.

Bats in the boonies are beneficial. Bats in people's buildings are bad news; no different from cockroaches or rats.

Just as one example, the old Capitol theater building in downtown Austin, Texas, had its attic infested. That resulted in condemning the building and tearing it down. (I'd thought it had smelled sorta strange, attending movies there as a kid. )

I dont really care if you want to kill bats on your own property but shooting 22's in to the sky at night no less is by far the dumbest idea i have heard in a long time.

Rust you have no idea how remote the place we lived was. It was a mile or more to the nearest house in the direction we were shooting. And I certainly know bats are beneficial. The one bat I shot as an adult are around my street light every night for years. It wasn't until it became aggressive that I disposed of it. Bats are territorial and will stay in the same place their entire lives. Even if you trap them and move them away they will come back. I even had a name for that bat that stayed around my house for years. I called it Boris. Well Boris got too aggressive and that was the end of him. I also ended up with a bat in my house that same year which was likely a juvenile. But that is a very, very bad thing to have (a bat in your living area). Having them in the attic is bad enough. That bat almost certainly came in through the chimney so I did the right thing in getting rid of Boris or Betty or what it was. I wasn't exaggerating about seeing ceilings sag from bat guano either. And the stench is unbearable. And the health risks are huge. We lived on a farm in a house that wasn't well protected against a bat invasion. They can get through a space the size of a quarter. So dad didn't want them around. It may have been an old way of dealing with the problem but it was a potential problem. BTW Rust you can't shoot what you can't see. You can't shoot bats at night. You shoot them in the evening when they come out before the sun goes down. BTW we used shotguns 99% of the time. We only learned that we could hit them with .22's late in the whole situation. Shotguns don't carry a mile. Neither do .22 bullets if you shoot them up in the air. City people just don't seem to grasp that not everyone lives in a heavily populated area. I would think being from Maine you would realize some people do live out away from others. Bats weren't the only thing we shot point the rifles up either. We shot squirrels in trees and pig nuts out of trees. We didn't shoot the pig nuts. We cut the stems in two that held them. Oh and then there was mistletoe. The only way to get it is to shoot it out of a tree with a .22. At least where I lived that was the only way.

CZ regarding your mistaken claim that bats are aggressive....

As a long-time cave explorer I've been in very close proximity to hundreds and sometimes tens of thousands of bats. All at once. In small spaces. In huge spaces. Never a problem.

One instance involved climbing (jumaring) out of an 180' foot domepit, where the last 50' were up a narrow chimney about 4' wide. This was at sunset, while the bat colony was busy swarming out of the cave for its nightly feed of TV newscasters and farm kids.

Thousands flew right past me, at times inches away. I could see them blur on by, could hear their wings. Not a one tried to harass me or "defend" their territory.

Still, the old myths die hard.

All right, all right, I guess this has wandered far enough into Animal Planet for today.