Is this a viable way to aim a handgun?

Regardless of whether or not the stance is a "viable" one, movies and TV shows are all about theatrics. Yes, there is a place for accuracy, but these people are actors first and foremost. They may or may not have any actual firearms training or experience.

What they DO get is coaching on what the director wants to see expressed in any given scene, plus whatever training they get on showmanship related to the moves they need to make.

Just as there are differences between sport fencing & real combat swordsman ship when compared to theatrical swordsmanship, there is also differences in theatrical firearms techniques. One word describes the reason why: drama.

I've always thought they did it as much to get the gun and actor in focus on close shots, but it's about the same stance most everyone used back in my IPSC days (local club only).

Shooting with bent elbows? It's UNPOSSIBLE!!!

Unless you're this guy:







Larry

Hey Larry, you do realize that some of these folks that have never heard of Chapman and Weaver won't have any idea who that is, right?

Who that WAS. The list of those responsible for advancing the art of pistol shooting stretches back far beyond Col. Cooper and has only swelled in the years since his passing.

How did Ed McGivern shoot?


How did Jelly Brice shoot?


Elmer Keith?


Fairbairn, Sykes, and Applegate?


Rob Laetham?


And who knows what next?

The fact that this question is being asked makes me feel old. Any stance is a viable way to aim a handgun if it makes it possible to have the sights aligned on target the moment the sear releases. Some stances just make aiming and recoil recovery easier. The Chapman stance was my second IPSC stance.

The Chapman stance was my second IPSC stance.

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Your second? Did you find it a lot easier to follow your sights than the technique y'all started with?

Sam, is that you in the drawring?

I find that I can shoot more accurately for a longer period f time if I keep my stance correct.

I am still experimenting with a stance that will keep me shooting my ar off hand without my accuracy going south quickly. If I remove my bipod, and shoot with my red dot as opposed to my 22 ounce scope and mount, it helps.

My great great great grandpa Nanook. He founded his own version of "Leatherslap" matches but something was lost in the translation and near as we can tell that had something to do with the loincloths.

Tatsuya Sakai of Kanagawa, Japan seems to think it works. He came oh so close at the World Speed Shoot...



My mistake. Tatuya actually won the Steel Challenge the year the pic was taken (2004).

Sam1911 said:

Your second? Did you find it a lot easier to follow your sights than the technique y'all started with?

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My first stance was a poor copy of that guy in the photos of post #32 and for my first few IPSC matches would appropriately be called the "Lord, please don't let me shoot myself in the foot or drop this gun and embarrass myself in front of all these people" stance. Back in the 1970's we frequently had to hit little tiny stop plates at 25 yards and I found the Chapman helped with that before adopting the even better L/E stance I witnessed at the Cactus League Matches.

Back in the 1970's we frequently had to hit little tiny stop plates at 25 yards and I found the Chapman helped with that before adopting the even better L/E stance I witnessed at the Cactus League Matches.

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All kidding aside (ok...for a minute anyway) this was before shot timers were available, right? So the stop plates were audibles for a timer with a stop watch? Or is that before your time?

DT Guy said:

Shooting with bent elbows? It's UNPOSSIBLE!!!

Unless you're this guy:

Larry

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I often shoot in a nearly identical position. I find that keeping the pistol closer to me, often even with my left upper arm braced against my torso, helps me keep it more stable, and hit more accurately, than I usually do with completely outstretched arms. But, I generally only use this postion when I'm slow-firing at very small targets.

Sam1911 said:

All kidding aside (ok...for a minute anyway) this was before shot timers were available, right? So the stop plates were audibles for a timer with a stop watch? Or is that before your time?

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Yup. I wonder how many close matches were lost because of the variability of the reaction time of the guy with the stop watch. We also used ballistic pendulums back then. Guys claiming their .357 was shooting major were occasionally challenged after a stage and the only thing major they had was embarrassment. This was actually very funny when the guy challenged was a Class AA shooter and the challenger a Class C shooter using a .45 caliber revolver.

As my old man used to tell me about baseball "if you can stand on your head, hold the batt with you ass and still hit .300 who am I to say you're doing it wrong"

A lot of stances work, depends on the person. The proof is on the paper. It may not look good or be high speed, but most of us aren't regularly in gunfights.

Anybody heading to the range today? I'd like some actual feedback from an actual shooter who has actually tried this stance. Anybody?

Comrade Mike said:

As my old man used to tell me about baseball "if you can stand on your head, hold the batt with you ass and still hit .300 who am I to say you're doing it wrong"

A lot of stances work, depends on the person. The proof is on the paper. It may not look good or be high speed, but most of us aren't regularly in gunfights.

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My initial reply was going to be similar. So many good MLB hitters have a stance that no coach would ever teach, yet those guys hit the ball and hit the ball well. I see the same at the range. Folks using stances or shooting positions not endorsed by the masses and they shoot very well.

My next point was to be, that in real life, not all LEOs are competition shooters. While they may have been taught the proper stance, they still have old bad habits, are reluctant to change or just don't care as long as they qualify when need be. On screen LEOs do what the Director tells them looks the coolest, and use props Producers think will be noticed the most, not necessarily what works in real life. This goes for many other things besides shooting stances. The minute we mirror our lives to follow fictional TV, we are in trouble.

MIL-DOT said:

I often shoot in a nearly identical position. I find that keeping the pistol closer to me, often even with my left upper arm braced against my torso, helps me keep it more stable, and hit more accurately, than I usually do with completely outstretched arms. But, I generally only use this postion when I'm slow-firing at very small targets.

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Wha.. wha.. what....

That's Cooper but that ain't no 1911. I am shocked!

But remember folks.. if you really really wanna shoot, shot like Shane!

Or better yet like Vin... that is Steve McQueen!

Deaf

I think too many are wrapped up in how they shoot vs how he is shooting in the photos. When something new comes around many feel that is the "correct" way to do it and all older techniques are "wrong". I've been a firearms instructor for almost 40 years and have always been a believer that if it works for you and it's safe have at it. I see nothing wrong with the photos shown as long as it works for him. Looks real enough for me.

If you feel he's holding the gun too close and will wind up hitting himself in the forehead you're wrong. I've seen 100 lb women hold a gun that close and not get hit. Develop some muscle is my advice to you. I think the thumbs forward grip is more about getting them out of the way of the slide. Good technique but I still use the unfashionable weak thumb locking down strong thumb. I also hook "too much" finger around the trigger. Works for me though.

Ky Larry said:

Anybody heading to the range today? I'd like some actual feedback from an actual shooter who has actually tried this stance. Anybody?

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This is pretty much how I shoot. I've no idea how I came about deciding to shoot like this, but I do. It was just more comfortable, and it does me just fine.

I tried isosceles, and Weaver (I sometimes do still use Weaver).

Only today have I learned it's called a Chapman stance, so it's cool that I know what it is now!

I'm not shooting all into one hole in the center necessarily, but I've got things pretty tightly grouped on paper.

Is it viable? I can hit what I'm aiming at, so I think it is.

EDIT: I am also cross-eye dominant. So maybe that is a factor in this, as others stated. I shoot right-handed but I'm left eye dominant, so I'm bringing my head over to aim with my left eye.

HisStigness said:

I just saw that commercial and thought the same thing. NCIS right? Think about how big the gap in the rear sight would be when it's that close to your face.

Anybody ever see Andrew Lincoln pretend to shoot a gun?

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Anything goes in the zombie apocalypse!