Need advise from seasoned Ak folks first ak

The WASR is a great route. $675 is a bit much, they're generally going for $580ish, Bud's supposedly had 'em for $530 this week too.

Best methods I've found to mount an optic and a light are the Ultimak and RS Products. Ultimak replaces the gas tube, adds about an ounce total, and you can use a micro dot and light easily. Gets hot, but not too much for ungloved defensive use, and a Mechanix glove will be more than adequate for training. I really prefer the Ultimak overall, but if you don't want to do that, RS makes fantastic side mounts for optics, as well as a good light mount that clamps to the barrel ahead of the handguard.

No problem. The WASR will do what you're wanting. They're such good guns for the money right now, QC has really been improved over past examples, to the point where they're almost completely different.

I would stick with a quality red dot, Aimpoint Micro if going the Ultimak route, Aimpoint PRO if going the RS route. You can find them used at good prices, but if you don't want to swing for an Aimpoint, or an optic of comparable quality, I personally would just roll with irons. The AK is a very durable rifle, I just think it's fitting to use optics that are just as durable. AK irons make fantastic sights for quick, practical target acquisition, and are quite usable at night as long as you've got a light on the gun. I've done a lot of shooting at night with AK's, irons, and a good light, and I'm just about as confident with them as I am with the red dot. You could even toss in an XS tritium front post if you were so inclined.

Make your first AK your last. Arsenal 107FR, or 104. Just shoot irons. If you want or need a scope you need a different platform.

The Arsenal, at twice the price, won't do anything any better than a WASR. Take the money you save by purchasing the WASR and use it on ammo. I have had one for several years and I really, really like it.

^That.

Arsenal is the way to go if you want a 100-series type of setup or a good factory side folder. If you just need an AK that'll work, the WASR will do it.

horsemen61, I had a SLR and shot several different AKs (Norinco, Poly Tech, Romanian, Hungarian, Bulgarian, etc.) that a FFL friend had/sold (fun times).

With short barreled AK with stamped sheet metal frame, minute of copy paper target at 100 yards was a challenge and took some effort. I used iron sights but think red dot would have helped. We tried plinking with soda cans but it was more waste of ammo than fun.

My reason for going with SLR was that it had milled receiver with a decent muzzle break. It was more accurate than other AKs and seemed to have higher quality of finish.

I bought Russian Saiga rifles in .223/.308 and had higher hopes but .223 Saiga had poor trigger and produced minute of copy paper at 100 yards using iron sights and 2.5"-3" using side frame scope mount and 3-9x Bushnell. .308 Saiga was better due to short "bull barrel" and 1:12 barrel twist rate and produced ~2" at 100 yards scoped once barrel warmed up with my 168 gr Hornady/H4895 reloads.

If you want accuracy from AK, I had NHM 91 with longer heavy barrel that was a dream to shoot. Softer recoil and hit wherever I aimed at, using iron sights. I could only imagine what it could have done with a scope.

highpower said:

The Arsenal, at twice the price, won't do anything any better than a WASR. Take the money you save by purchasing the WASR and use it on ammo. I have had one for several years and I really, really like it.

Click to expand...

Great looking rifle.

Nothing wrong with a WASR. Just check the action and make sure the front-to-back mag wobble is minimal. Side-to-side wobble is common and an easy fix if it's too excessive. $675 is way too much. Look to pay under $600 at the most. I picked one up a few months ago at a show for $550.

bds said:

If you want accuracy from AK, I had NHM 91 with longer heavy barrel that was a dream to shoot. Softer recoil and hit wherever I aimed at, using iron sights. I could only imagine what it could have done with a scope.

Click to expand...

My NHM-91 was extremely accurate....just as good as my AR. Sold it and my MAK-90 to a friend and picked up a Type-56 S1.

Your first ak don't have to cost $1k and up and don't have to start with the letter "A" the more affordable cugir built wasr 1063 are will get the job done. and will go toe to toe with higher priced "A" variants. So many nowadays to choose from, and whatever you choose I'm pretty sure will serve you well
Cugir wasr 1063

Highpower....that wasr looks like it means buisness, me like

ifit said:

Highpower....that wasr looks like it means business, me like

Click to expand...

No kidding. You bring that back from Bosnia, highpower?

Start with the budget AK, then if you feel it's not good enough, etc. pick up a higher end AK. I own several AKs and yes there is a difference in quality and usually money spent.

You bring that back from Bosnia, highpower?

Click to expand...

No, but the wood was there. I picked up a three pack of the Balkan war AK furniture that Apex was selling a while back. That was the best BPU looking wood of the stuff I received.

I also got some for my M70 underfolder.



Sorry OP, I didn't mean to highjack your thread.

I owned and shot a Romanian SAR-1 for years, and greatly enjoyed it. I'd suggest the following:

(1) Get a decent optic. In my experience, the single greatest thing you can do to make a typical AK more accurate is to improve the sighting system, particularly on a 16" barreled model. The very short sight radius is a handicap for most of us if your goal is precision, and it is an easy rifle to shoot badly. In my opinion, the average shooter will shoot better with a WASR and Aimpoint/Primary Arms dot than he/she will with an Arsenal and iron sights. The smaller the dot, the better.

I put a Kobra (Russian red dot) on mine, but if I had it to do over again, I'd go with a quality American made red dot on a siderail adapter or an Ultimak rail, for durability reasons; the Kobra internals are delicate.

(2) Don't bother with folding stocks, unless you get one of the nice sidefolders that acts as a regular stock when fully extended. I experimented with a wire sidefolder for a while, and shot USPSA-style carbine matches with both the standard stock and the folder; the lack of cheek weld on the folder made it abysmally slow to acquire the sights.

(3) If you are interested in accuracy, get a 5.45x39mm. Mine was a 7.62x39mm and shot OK, but the 5.45's tend to be more accurate. If you do get a 7.62x39mm, ditch the slant brake and get something symmetrical (whether a brake or a flash suppressor, or just put a muzzle nut on it). IIRC, Small Arms Review did a test in which the slant brake was shown to roughly double group size; I would assume that the reason is induced bullet nutation due to the asymmetric gas flow at muzzle exit. Symmetrical brakes work better, anyway.

(4) If you are interested in accuracy, focus primarily on barrel quality, not stamped vs. forged. The reason milled guns tend to be more accurate is that they sit at the high end of the market, and hence tend to come with very good barrels. A stamped-receiver rifle with the same barrel will shoot as well and will be much lighter. Fit and finish on milled guns is awesome compared to a WASR, but you pay for it in weight.

(5) Learn to run it. Reloading and cycling an AK is IMO best done with the support hand, not the firing hand. When benchresting, support it as far back as possible to minimize jumping. Focus hard on the fundamentals (sight picture, trigger squeeze); AK's are not nearly as inaccurate as the Internet seems to think they are, but you have to do your part. Too often, people jerk or slap the trigger, shoot from a lousy sight picture or an unbraced position, etc. and then blame the rifle for being inaccurate.

(6) It is not magically reliable; lubricate it, and keep it buttoned up whenever there is a chance that crap can get into the receiver. The Russian AK manual says keep the dern thing lubricated, especially in dusty or adverse conditions, keep the ejection port cover closed, and keep a magazine in. Just because the Internet says you can bury one in sand for 40 years, then pull it out of the ground and it will run perfectly, doesn't mean they like to run dry or full of crud. Lubrication will keep the residue from gas that vents into the receiver (and they do vent plenty) from turning to carbon cement, and will help keep crud and debris mobile.

The Arsenal, at twice the price, won't do anything any better than a WASR.

Click to expand...

Yep.

Unless you are wanting a special configuration Arsenal offers (like side-folding polymer stock, etc), or just have to have magwell dimples, current-production WASRs are hard to beat for the value they offer.

(5) Learn to run it. Reloading and cycling an AK is IMO best done with the support hand, not the firing hand.

Click to expand...

I agree with learning to run it but disagree about using the support hand unless you're talking about the left handed.

1)Removing the safety: Use your right hand with your thumb on the safety and your fingers wrapped around the magazine. Sweep down with your thumb and drop your hand back to the pistol grip. You aren't going to be flicking the safety on and off between targets, deal with it.
2) Mag swaps: Right fingers grabs mag, thumb releases mag catch. Drop or stow the mag depending on conditions. RH grand new mag ( lips up ) and inserts into receiver. Use your index finger for alignment so you don't have to look for the magazine well.
3) Cycling the action: RH reaches up and pull back on the CH.

All of the controls on an AK are within 4" of each other. Trigger, safety, mag catch, and CH are all centrally located and easily accessible for your right hand. Plus, you can do all the above actions standing, prone, or rollover prone.

AKs aren't ARs and have a different manual of arms. Trying to force AR usages on an AK is going to be an exercise in futility.

BSW

1)Removing the safety: Use your right hand with your thumb on the safety and your fingers wrapped around the magazine. Sweep down with your thumb and drop your hand back to the pistol grip. You aren't going to be flicking the safety on and off between targets, deal with it.

Click to expand...

Agree.

2) Mag swaps: Right fingers grabs mag, thumb releases mag catch. Drop or stow the mag depending on conditions. RH grand new mag ( lips up ) and inserts into receiver. Use your index finger for alignment so you don't have to look for the magazine well.

3) Cycling the action: RH reaches up and pull back on the CH.

Click to expand...

That works but I find it slower than using the support hand, even for a reload with retention (though you wouldn't be doing that in a rush anyway). When on the clock or in an emergency, reloading and charging with the left hand is (for me) considerably faster and your right hand stays on the pistol grip, and you can use the mag in hand to release the empty (if not doing a retention reload). Shooting matches, that worked quite well.

Plus, you can do all the above actions standing, prone, or rollover prone.

Click to expand...

Prone or rollover prone, I agree on the right hand changing/charging. Outside of that situation, I'd personally charge the other way.

AKs aren't ARs and have a different manual of arms. Trying to force AR usages on an AK is going to be an exercise in futility.

Click to expand...

Indeed. But whacking the paddle, rocking in the magazine, and reaching under to slap the right-side charging handle isn't running an AK like an AR; it's running it like something with a fixed right-side charging handle and a rear-paddle magazine release that you can reach with the left hand. May not work for everyone, but I moved that way after trying right-hand-only operation for quite some time, and ended up much preferring the left hand.

How you use it comes down to whatever you'll do consistently.

For safety manipulation, I have two methods for two different instances.
1, if at the ready (low, high, doesn't matter), I just hold the rifle with my RH thumb behind the grip (think if you rotated your hand slightly outward), and keep my middle finger on the safety. As I come up, I sweep the safety off and get a firing grip at the same time. After firing, I just sweep the safety back on in a reverse of that motion.
2, if I'm just carrying the rifle normally (firing grip, finger along the trigger guard), I just rotate my hand slightly out again, and sweep the safety off with my index finger. Maybe I'm blessed with long fingers, but it's truly a quick, efficient motion either way. And after firing, I use method 1 to sweep the safety back on and stay ready. When I transition shoulders, safety goes on, I grab the mag with my right hand and place my thumb on the safety, grab the grip with my left hand, and transition. Then when I come up, I sweep the safety with my right thumb, and keep my thumb there to keep it out of the way of the CH. Grabbing the mag is obviously less stable than grabbing the handguard, but it works.

For reloads, I beer can the mag, rounds up and facing away. Stick my support-hand thumb out, sweep the mag catch with my thumb, rather than the new mag, and rock the new mag in. If I need to retain the old mag, the motion is the same, except instead of letting the mag fall, I grab it while still holding new mag, rock the new mag in, and just slide my hand down the new mag and put the old one wherever I need. I don't know if that makes sense, but the key to it is consistency. Can do it right or left handed.

And for charging, I reach underneath with the left hand if shooting normally, or I just charge with the right hand if shooting from my support side.

I'd like to add that for maybe $100 more than a WASR you can pick up a Yugo underfolder like the one pictured above. The Yugos are generally considered a bit more "heavy duty" than a Romy and are fine weapons.

It is generally consistent to say that for the most part Romanian rifles will shoo as well as the Arsenals. But in my experience having owned about 14 different Kalashnikov style semi autos I really enjoy my Bulgarian Arsenals the best. Circle 10s are great mags lighter than steel I have been told. My first milled Bulgy I bought in1999. It was the black thumbhole version. With three consecutive shots it clover leafed the target at 100 yds. Obviously it wouldnt do that every time but if you did your part it would hit. I occasionally get a stamped rifle like my current SLR107 which shoots more accurately than most. One of the SGL31's I had was more accurate as well but the other one wasnt so much. Both the 16" Saiga and 21" VEPR 308 would shoot consistently under 3 moa at 200 meters. In fact of all the AK I have shot/owned, the 16" Saiga 308 is the one I would take every time, followed by the faultless SLR 107. My old milled Bulgy only takes a back seat because it is slightly heavier.

B@Tall said:

I'd like to add that for maybe $100 more than a WASR you can pick up a Yugo underfolder like the one pictured above. The Yugos are generally considered a bit more "heavy duty" than a Romy and are fine weapons

Click to expand...

The underfolders that you're going to find with the thicker RPK receiver are going to be parts kit built guns with a US receiver and barrel. They are nice examples but take non standard furniture and are heavier than they need to be. I'd rather have the WASR for a basic AK that is standard and of good quality.

Get a century c39. I have had ~15 different aks. I landed on this one. Milled receiver, inexpensive, made in america, capable of 3inch groups at 100. (i have a 6 inch steel target i hit pretty regularly with crap ammo)

You wont be upset. and they have different wood to choose from.

akv3g4n said:

The underfolders that you're going to find with the thicker RPK receiver are going to be parts kit built guns with a US receiver and barrel. They are nice examples but take non standard furniture and are heavier than they need to be. I'd rather have the WASR for a basic AK that is standard and of good quality.

Click to expand...

This is my M70. Like the one pictured above, I had no problem finding a Balkan surplus forgrip for it as well as a pistol grip. Stainless bolt and carrier, virtually no mag wobble....I gotta say it's a little nicer than any WASR I've owned, and I've been happy with my WASRs. Definitely worth a little extra money, especially if an underfolder is what you want.