entropy
Member
Nothing wrong with a Police 870. They are built with more care and attention to detail.
Here is list of differences between Remington 870 Express and Remington 870 Police. Most of the parts which are used on Remington 870 Police are easy to get and install on the Express version of a shotgun.
None of these modifications/ parts will help with short-shucking; it is strictly an operator induced error. It is corrected by vigorously working the action back and forth. Smoothed parts make it slicker, and perhaps faster, but they will not cure short-shucking. In his particular case it is caused by subconsciously trying to slice another millisecond or two off his score. This is why I recommended he reflect on the purpose of his competition. Not saying it doesn't help, but I'll frame it from my own experiences; I started thinking about modifying my 1911 for competition shooting, and I do have a Trap gun that is useless as a hunting or SD gun. I shoot other types of clays, with a different gun, to prepare for hunting. I decided I'd train on my own without modifying my pistol for competition.
If anything, the stronger carrier dog spring would be more likely to cause short shucking. Often when shooters feel the resistance, they stop working the action, resulting in a short shuck. This is most common with new shooters. See this thread); https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...verick-88-shotgun.874650/page-3#post-11663647 , specifically the second video in post #60. I did not experience this with my Tactical Magnum, or the Police Model I had 30 years ago.
There's nothing wrong with switching these parts out, and I'd recommend if 1KPerDay wants to keep shooting his 870 for 3 gun the extended mag spring, and a Volquartsen extractor. (wouldn't shock me if they supply Ilion with the machined extractors.)
If you were trained at Ilion, please enlighten me as the what magic they put in them to prevent short-shucking. Kuhnhausen says nothing about it, and if any shop manual outside of Ilion would have some fix, it would be his. I have not been trained at Ilion, but have been working on Remington 870's and 1100's since 1976, and have owned Police and Tactical Models as well as Express and Wingmaster models of the 870. Perhaps Virginian will check in on this post, or riomouse911. They both were Ilion-trained.
Your recommendation for a Police Model is a good one, despite 1KPerDay's disinterest in it. Were I him, I'd be looking at smoothing up the action on my Express as well as working on my technique.
Here is list of differences between Remington 870 Express and Remington 870 Police. Most of the parts which are used on Remington 870 Police are easy to get and install on the Express version of a shotgun.
- 870 Police shotguns go thru a special 23 station check list – ranging from visual inspection, functional testing, test firing, and final inspection.
- All Police shotguns are assembled in a “special build area” at the plant in Ilion, NY. This section is secured and serves only to build LE and Military shotguns, with the same factory personnel working at that assignment each shift.
- All parts that enter the “special build area” are visually inspected by hand to ensure top quality and functionality.
- Due to heavy recoil in buck and slug loads, all 870 Police guns have a longer magazine spring which ensures positive feed and function.
- A heavier sear spring is used to generate a reliable, positive trigger pull between 5 and 8 lbs.
- A heavier carrier dog spring is used to ensure when the carrier elevates the shell, it will be held there until the bolt can push it into the chamber. This ensures positive feeding when using heavier payload rounds.
- Police shotguns do not have an ISS (Integrated Safety System) which is a locking mechanism on the safety of commercial shotguns. This type of locking mechanism can cause delay to an officer who needs the weapon but does not have the appropriate key. LE shotguns have the standard, proven, cross bolt safety.
- The fore-end on the Express model is longer and not compatible with many police shotgun vehicle racks.
- The Police shotguns utilize the heavy duty SPEEDFEED Stocks and Fore-ends.
- The Express model will not allow for the addition of an extension tube without physical modification to the tube and barrel, which can nullify the warranty.
- The Express model has a BEAD BLAST BLUE finish while the Police models utilize either High Luster bluing or Parkerization.
- The Express model utilizes a synthetic trigger housing while the Police models use a compressed metal housing.
- The Police shotgun barrel is locked down with a “ball detent” system in conjunction with the magazine cap vs. a lesser grade “synthetic magazine spring retainer” lock down as used on the Express system.
- The receivers used in Police guns are “vibra honed” to smooth out rough finishes and remove burrs before parkerization or bluing.
- Police shotguns use machined ejectors and extractors, as opposed to powdered metal cast which are utilized on the Express models.
None of these modifications/ parts will help with short-shucking; it is strictly an operator induced error. It is corrected by vigorously working the action back and forth. Smoothed parts make it slicker, and perhaps faster, but they will not cure short-shucking. In his particular case it is caused by subconsciously trying to slice another millisecond or two off his score. This is why I recommended he reflect on the purpose of his competition. Not saying it doesn't help, but I'll frame it from my own experiences; I started thinking about modifying my 1911 for competition shooting, and I do have a Trap gun that is useless as a hunting or SD gun. I shoot other types of clays, with a different gun, to prepare for hunting. I decided I'd train on my own without modifying my pistol for competition.
If anything, the stronger carrier dog spring would be more likely to cause short shucking. Often when shooters feel the resistance, they stop working the action, resulting in a short shuck. This is most common with new shooters. See this thread); https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...verick-88-shotgun.874650/page-3#post-11663647 , specifically the second video in post #60. I did not experience this with my Tactical Magnum, or the Police Model I had 30 years ago.
There's nothing wrong with switching these parts out, and I'd recommend if 1KPerDay wants to keep shooting his 870 for 3 gun the extended mag spring, and a Volquartsen extractor. (wouldn't shock me if they supply Ilion with the machined extractors.)
If you were trained at Ilion, please enlighten me as the what magic they put in them to prevent short-shucking. Kuhnhausen says nothing about it, and if any shop manual outside of Ilion would have some fix, it would be his. I have not been trained at Ilion, but have been working on Remington 870's and 1100's since 1976, and have owned Police and Tactical Models as well as Express and Wingmaster models of the 870. Perhaps Virginian will check in on this post, or riomouse911. They both were Ilion-trained.
Your recommendation for a Police Model is a good one, despite 1KPerDay's disinterest in it. Were I him, I'd be looking at smoothing up the action on my Express as well as working on my technique.
