10mm Semi Auto for Bear Defense?

[Atomic_Dog9601]

As a hiker and Backcountry camper I am no stranger to black bear encounters. Generally I tend to abide by safety rules using a bear bell affixed to my pack and carrying bear mace. But it seems as the years have gone by the critters are getting more and more bold.
In a nutshell I have been considering in investing in a pistol for bear protection. Now most outdoorsmen I've talked to recommend the .44 magnum revolver as the go to or at least a .357. But one game warden I spoke to suggested a 10mm semi auto using heavy bear loads. Is this a viable option? His tool of choice was a Glock 20. Can anyone verify the stopping power of a 10mm?
This is likely a pistol that will only see use a few times a year except for target practice and general cleaning.

 

[Kevinq6]

It's true a lot of people like a 10mm for protection including rangers in Alaska. It's not as big as a .44 magnum but some people find the semiautomatic easier to operate and they do not train with revolvers as much. It's also easier to get a few shots off if you have time ... maybe you would get two or three off instead of one or two.

I believe .357 and 10mm are about equal when loaded with hot bear loads. I think the hottest .357 mag out of a heavy steel pistol has better sectional density but I believe they are about equal for practical purposes.

If you do get one make sure to get a heavier spring and make sure to practice with the bear loads to verify they cycle well. You also may need an after-market barrel if you shoot hardcast. The Modern hardcast can have a coating but they tend to shoot better with a barrel with traditional rifling.

I would use a 10mm because I have one and do not practice with revolvers. If I believed the risk were 'high' for some reason I would probably carry a shotgun with nonexpanding slugs.

Make sure it's accessible. You seem to have the common sense but I mention that because in some stories I have read people had a gun but could not get to it in time.

 

[WrongHanded]

But one game warden I spoke to suggested a 10mm semi auto using heavy bear loads. Is this a viable option?

Yes. Especially if you're not accustomed to the recoil of .44 magnum and don't want to learn to control it. Though practice with whatever firearm you choose is absolutely essential.

His tool of choice was a Glock 20. Can anyone verify the stopping power of a 10mm?

It doesn't have any "stopping power" as such. What you typically see with handgun bullets is a wound channel that causes blood loss and therefore a drop in blood pressure. The bigger the hole (or holes), the more potential for blood loss in the very near future. But that's not a "stop" until blood pressure becomes sufficiently low.

The other main kind of stopping damage is a direct hit to the central nervous system. Which can (typically would) result in an immediate stop. But for that you need to hit the brain or spine. The 10mm, with the right ammunition, is capable of penetrating enough to cause such a wound.

Mechanical damage is certainly possible (breaking bones, or severing tendons) but that's very unlikely.

Having said all that, I personally would prefer .41 or .44 magnum, but wouldn't turn my nose up at a 10mm for black bears. Grizzlies are a different story however. For them, I prefer a .44 mag with 300gr bullets.

 

[Rule3]

Oh goodie, a BEAR THREAD
which would not be complete without :

https://alaskagunsite.wordpress.com/2016/12/31/10mm-auto-and-bears/

https://military.wikia.org/wiki/Sirius_Dog_Sled_Patrol

 

[Alaskan Ironworker]

Yes it is a viable option.

 

[horsey300]

Bb .357 Barnes https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=287
10 mm
https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=114
.41 Barnes
https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=322
.41 210 jhp
https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=593
For black bears, this is what I'd like to pack. I have .357, 10mm, and .41 sidearms. Platform makes a large difference as well. I can whip the .357 (m19-4 and sp101), 10mm (1911), and .41 (4 5/8" Blackhawk) all onto target for that first shot pretty fast, reload the 1911 the fastest, but my groups stay tightest with the revolvers. These all have open sights, two have the fiber front sight, I'm thinking about putting a 4moa dot or 65 moa circle 2 moa dot reflex type sight on all of them to increase accuracy and target acquisition. Black bears, while they CAN become larger and/or dangerous, are not terrifying critters. If you're REALLY worried, grab the .41, if you're just wanting more than a sharp stick, any of the 3 properly loaded would work at nervous distances. With the 140 Barnes load I've never wished I'd had my 10mm instead, but there are days I ask myself if I shouldn't just pack the .41 as a standard. If I were going to weed out 1 of the bunch it would be the 10mm (it won't happen but it's the one I "need" the least). In general, if you don't think the .357 can do it, the 10mm doesn't bring much more to the table. There are other semiautomatic chamberings out there that will step up the power class much more effectively: .45 super and .460 Rowland, .429 DE, .50 AE. Mind you, for the AVERAGE black bears, the .357 140 should do the trick, but for true preparation of all the outliers, get a truly nastier matchup.

 

[horsey300]

Oh goodie, a BEAR THREAD
which would not be complete without :

https://alaskagunsite.wordpress.com/2016/12/31/10mm-auto-and-bears/

https://military.wikia.org/wiki/Sirius_Dog_Sled_Patrol

Forgot the stickied "what gun for bears"
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/what-gun-for-bears.785992/

 

[WisBorn]

As a revolver guy I like 44, 41, 357, and 45 colt.
But the 10mm is gaining popularity as a carry companion in the wilderness. If you have the option of shooting several different models of handguns before you purchase - do that.

Remember that you are going to carry the gun a lot more than shoot it. Your defense shots will be close. And you may get only a couple shots off.

Enjoy your search.

 

[Rule3]

We only have black bears, not to worried about them. If I was out an about in the woods, I would rather have 15 rounds of 10 mm that 6 rounds of 44 mag. I have both and the revolver is a heavy sucker!

Doughnuts and Bear Spray seem to work well

We where staying up in Tn and had Black Bears all around raiding the trash, they did not seem interested in us. There were berry patches all over.
Around here they bust into peoples pool screen porches as the smell the gas grill grease. Heck there has been pictures of a couple in the pool!

 

[jmr40]

I carried a G20 for years, but downsized to a G29 3-4 years ago. I shoot both guns equally well, but the G29 is enough smaller that it is easier to carry with the 10 round mags. And I can use the 15 round mags in it. One huge advantage of a semi over MOST revolvers is the ability to mount a light for use at night.

The better heavy for caliber hardcast loads made by companies like Buffalo Bore and Double Tap have proven to work. I use 200 gr 10mm DoubleTap loads @ 1300 fps in the Glock.

But I've seen enough evidence that I'd now trust the better 45 ACP loads if you want something more versatile. This is my compact Smith M&P 45 with 10 round mag loaded with 255 gr Buffalo Bore ammo. I'd trust either.



Some data on handguns vs bear. Black, brown, and grizzly. Despite old conventional wisdom handguns work much better than most people think. Any handgun, even without special ammo. But lets just say I sleep better with the better loads.


Handgun or Pistol Defense Against Bear Attack: 73 cases, 96% Effective (ammoland.com)

 

[GEM]

Not my lane but somewhere, someone will mention that the Danes, Swedes and Norwegians carry the 20 as a rifle backup with some load for that situation. Google will bring it up. Just saying.

 

[SharpDog]

It will never work, bears won't want to carry guns for defense, they have claws.

 

[Boomholzer]

I am comfortable with the 10mm for black bear but I can offer no personal proofs. 10mm with +P 220gr hardcast is my most often carried woods sidearms. I am also a huge 10mm fan.
#2 the obvious 357 #3 45LC #4 44Mag
PPE = G29, most used, hiking, backpacking, camping
Hunting PPE: G29, Delta Elite, P220Elite, G20
Hunting: Scoped EAA Witness Hunter, G40 with a reflex sight, P220Elite 5.5", RIA Match Ultra 6"

The Sig is so sweet, hand fit extended Bar-Sto barrel, very accurate. A bit heavy for PPE to hump around.
I have a 7-shot 327PD & a 329PD purchased specifically for lighter woods PPE. Talk about bears, that 329PD is a BEAR to shoot with full 44Mag loads. I never use them as much as I thought I would. The 327 comes on some hiking & camping trips as its not much of a weight burden for the firepower.

If I could only keep one of if I needed to recommend one, it would be the G20.

Side story: Some number of years ago I drove 3hrs north to go bow hunting. Parked, cammied up, hiked in with a pale of apples and made a ground blind behind a triplet of white birch trees.
Eventually a good size female black bear took to my apples. She then made on to the trail I walked in on. She got my scent ground and air and followed it right to me. She could not quite figure me out. Two feet nose-to-nose is a full-grown black bear. I could see the snot bubbles in her snout and her whole muzzle was easily in reach.

 

[FL-NC]

I would carry a Glock 20 if I had one in the bear woods. When I went bear hunting in Maine, I carried my Glock 21 (45 ACP). All of the guides also carried some type of 45 automatic.

 

[Choctaw]

My Glock 20 is my primary woods/hunting pistol for pigs (granted, bears aren't pigs). Stoked with sixteen Underwood 220 grain FN Hi-Tek coated hard cast cartridges I do not feel undergunned.

 

[Atomic_Dog9601]

All in all in regard to carry method I would likely go for a hip holster. Wearing my long haul pack it's the most practical position.

 

[Kevin Keith]

I need to move where there are black bears so I can scare some up and get some experience with them. I feel like a total hack commenting on something I have never had to deal with! lol

Still...I bet a 10mm would be super great for black bears. I remember reading some guy (Ross Seyfried, maybe?) has killed a couple of Cape buffalo with a 10mm.

 

[Atomic_Dog9601]

I would carry a Glock 20 if I had one in the bear woods. When I went bear hunting in Maine, I carried my Glock 21 (45 ACP). All of the guides also carried some type of 45 automatic.

I've heard that the .45 is a good choice for Backcountry carry. One of the sellers I talked to recommended a Springfield XD .45 for a sidearm while camping or hunting.

 

[Kevin Keith]

My Glock 20 is my primary woods/hunting pistol for pigs (granted, bears aren't pigs). Stoked with sixteen Underwood 220 grain FN Hi-Tek coated hard cast cartridges I do not feel undergunned.

You're right, feral hogs aren't bears. They're scarier!

 

[horsey300]

I've heard that the .45 is a good choice for Backcountry carry. One of the sellers I talked to recommended a Springfield XD .45 for a sidearm while camping or hunting.

Having dealt with charging bovines more than charging bears, I'll include that shot placement and target acquisition will be key, what platform you're most comfortable with will make a HUGE difference. When the big scary is after me, I'm trying to break shoulders and spines first, vitals are a bonus but I've witnessed enough incidents where someone got hurt by a critter that was already dead (but it didn't know it yet). So being able to put a nasty round in a place where it will take the most fight out of the critter the fastest will be more important than the minute difference between a .357/10mm discussion. First round may be into the vitals, but the rest are definitely meant to break big bones in my mind. If you're most comfortable with the .45, get very good with it, if you're comfortable with a revolver, get very good with it. Memorize where you want your shots to get to and hope you'll not have to.

 

[H&Hhunter]

Uhmmm…. nope.