10mm..: the new outdoorsman's choice.?

[SDGlock23]

Matching the bullet to the velocity is always something to keep in mind. But there are plenty of quality 10mm bullet designed for 10mm velocities. Also 10mm Auto pushing similar weight bullets a lot more than 100 fps faster than 40S&W, more like 200-250 fps faster. With the right bullets that does make a difference.

I'll disagree with you, from the reloading I've done and more to the point, pushing both 10mm and .40 I've found there to only be about a 100 fps difference between them. Case in point, a G20 vs a G22, almost the same barrel length but the 10mm from that 4.6" barrel (I use KKM barrels for the warm stuff) will toss a 180gr JHP to 1350-1375 fps. A G22 will push the same bullet 1250-1275 fps. The G23 vs G29, a 180gr @ nearly 1300 fps vs one at 1225 fps, so I mean yeah, about 100 fps is right. Sometimes a little more, but sometimes less. That's why I have to wonder, having owned quite a few 10mm's, whether it's really going to "do" anything the .40 won't.

 

[mcb]

I'll disagree with you, from the reloading I've done and more to the point, pushing both 10mm and .40 I've found there to only be about a 100 fps difference between them. Case in point, a G20 vs a G22, almost the same barrel length but the 10mm from that 4.6" barrel (I use KKM barrels for the warm stuff) will toss a 180gr JHP to 1350-1375 fps. A G22 will push the same bullet 1250-1275 fps. The G23 vs G29, a 180gr @ nearly 1300 fps vs one at 1225 fps, so I mean yeah, about 100 fps is right. Sometimes a little more, but sometimes less. That's why I have to wonder, having owned quite a few 10mm's, whether it's really going to "do" anything the .40 won't.

I don't believe your 40 S&W numbers, they are either wrong or loaded well above accepted working pressure limits for 40S&W. I have never seen factory 180 gr 40S&W get much over 1100 fps from a 4 to 5 inch barrel with 180 gr bulelts in the real world (Double Tap and Buffalo Bore both show most 180 gr loads at ~1100 fps from 4 to 5 inch guns). If you are getting 1275 fps from a G22 then I would argue you are pushing pressures well past SAAMI MAP.

If we are going to step outside of SAAMI then 10mm Auto can be loaded a lot hotter than 1300-1350 fps with a 180gr bullet.

ETA: Hodgdon's online reloading database list ~37 loads for 40S&W using a large variety of powders and one of three different 180gr bullets. Of those loads only three of them exceeds 1100 fps with the fastest one being 1159 fps. The reported test barrel is 4-inches.

 

[Jackalope 1]

Do tell; What caused them to do that?

My home was burglarized, tore my house apart, found my pride & joy, he ( they??? ) Traded/sold to drug dealer, Leo's busted said dd, BATFE demanded CCE to be released to them for further investigation,their goal then, and present day is to destroy all firearms they cañ get their grubby hands onto. Information provided to me by hired lawyer.

 

[Jackalope 1]

I'll disagree with you, from the reloading I've done and more to the point, pushing both 10mm and .40 I've found there to only be about a 100 fps difference between them. Case in point, a G20 vs a G22, almost the same barrel length but the 10mm from that 4.6" barrel (I use KKM barrels for the warm stuff) will toss a 180gr JHP to 1350-1375 fps. A G22 will push the same bullet 1250-1275 fps. The G23 vs G29, a 180gr @ nearly 1300 fps vs one at 1225 fps, so I mean yeah, about 100 fps is right. Sometimes a little more, but sometimes less. That's why I have to wonder, having owned quite a few 10mm's, whether it's really going to "do" anything the .40 won't.

Good point made, not about to, or even will disagree with you even after I have tested all 4 ( all 6.5" barrels ) of mine with my Oehler 35P Chronograph. That always separates facts from fiction. However I hàve learned a WHOLE LOT from you fellow posters. Must remember to include any message ( ?? ) Referred to below your posts, seemed to have upset Entropy on one of his posts,, I was in fact referring to ( filler??? ) " Boot in the face "

 

[Jackalope 1]

I don't believe your 40 S&W numbers, they are either wrong or loaded well above accepted working pressure limits for 40S&W. I have never seen factory 180 gr 40S&W get much over 1100 fps from a 4 to 5 inch barrel with 180 gr bulelts in the real world (Double Tap and Buffalo Bore both show most 180 gr loads at ~1100 fps from 4 to 5 inch guns). If you are getting 1275 fps from a G22 then I would argue you are pushing pressures well past SAAMI MAP.

If we are going to step outside of SAAMI then 10mm Auto can be loaded a lot hotter than 1300-1350 fps with a 180gr bullet.

ETA: Hodgdon's online reloading database list ~37 loads for 40S&W using a large variety of powders and one of three different 180gr bullets. Of those loads only three of them exceeds 1100 fps with the fastest one being 1159 fps. The reported test barrel is 4-inches.

HANDLOADER Magazine is my true provider of dead on velocity, all others SHY AWAY ( lawsuits??? ) From stating top velocity. Reason I bought my 35 P Chronograph.

 

[CaptHank]

I have to add my personal favorites to mix.

EAA Witness Hunter 6", 10mm. 14 round magazines, handloaded 14.0GR AA No.9, 180GR. XTP's
Dan Wesson 41 Mag, 8" handloaded 21.2GR. W296, 210GR. XTP's

 

[CDMCKY]

I like carrying my Taurus Raging Bull 6.5" .454 Casull when I'm
out in "The Country"; you never know what you might find....

 

[TTv2]

The key word is the *new* outdoorsman. Younger people in their 20s and 30s are by in large not revolver people, they want semi autos, they want the crisp trigger, the fast reloads, the higher capacities.

10mm offers all that and in a no fuss, no muss package unlike other high power big bore semi auto calibers.

 

[CraigC]

The key word is the *new* outdoorsman. Younger people in their 20s and 30s are by in large not revolver people, they want semi autos, they want the crisp trigger, the fast reloads, the higher capacities.

10mm offers all that and in a no fuss, no muss package unlike other high power big bore semi auto calibers.

Crisp trigger??????

The "new" outdoorsman isn't really an outdoorsman at all. He just wants something comparable to the concealed carry gun he's used to and 'thinks' is powerful enough to do the job. If they really were outdoorsmen, they'd know that magazine capacity and reload speed are irrelevant beyond the pavement. They're barely relevant in the asphalt jungle. I don't carry revolvers in the field because I'm an old stick in the mud, resistant to change or because it's all I have. I carry them because they're the best tool for the job. Proposing the 10mm semi-auto as the be-all, end-all of outdoorsman's sidearms is like trying to make a hardcore trail rig out of a Honda CRV.

 

[TTv2]

Crisp trigger??????

The "new" outdoorsman isn't really an outdoorsman at all. He just wants something comparable to the concealed carry gun he's used to and 'thinks' is powerful enough to do the job. If they really were outdoorsmen, they'd know that magazine capacity and reload speed are irrelevant beyond the pavement. They're barely relevant in the asphalt jungle. I don't carry revolvers in the field because I'm an old stick in the mud, resistant to change or because it's all I have. I carry them because they're the best tool for the job. Proposing the 10mm semi-auto as the be-all, end-all of outdoorsman's sidearms is like trying to make a hardcore trail rig out of a Honda CRV.

It depends on where you live. If you live in Alaska or the Rockies, .41 and .44 Magnums and larger are better than 10mm, but for someone not in those places a .357, heck a .38 Special does just fine, but 10mm shoots heavier bullets and twice as many.

That appeals to the younger gun owners who hike the trails and they don't have to deal with declining quality in revolvers these days or having to become a veritable gunsmith to know if the used $1000 S&W revolver they're looking at is in good shape.

 

[CraigC]

It depends on where you live. If you live in Alaska or the Rockies, .41 and .44 Magnums and larger are better than 10mm, but for someone not in those places a .357, heck a .38 Special does just fine, but 10mm shoots heavier bullets and twice as many.

That appeals to the younger gun owners who hike the trails and they don't have to deal with declining quality in revolvers these days or having to become a veritable gunsmith to know if the used $1000 S&W revolver they're looking at is in good shape.

No it doesn't. Cartridges like the .44Spl and standard pressure .45Colt will do the job better, with a larger and heavier bullet, without making your ears bleed. Again, capacity is irrelevant.

It appeals to people who never killed anything with a handgun and don't plan to. Declining quality in revolvers? Pure nonsense. A gunsmith to be able to buy a used gun? More nonsense.

 

[entropy]

A gunsmith to be able to buy a used gun? More nonsense.

Ya gotta admit, it does help......just like buying a car as a mechanic.

 

[JDTomba]

Good choice but holsters are hard to come by and spare magazines are really heavy.
Also I heard they are rough on Red Dot's

I'm a Maker. Do custom Leather ; everything from beaded horse tack to guitar straps , beaded belts and tooled purses and saddle bags. Made my own.

 

[Buzznrose]

No it doesn't. Cartridges like the .44Spl and standard pressure .45Colt will do the job better, with a larger and heavier bullet, without making your ears bleed. Again, capacity is irrelevant.

It appeals to people who never killed anything with a handgun and don't plan to. Declining quality in revolvers? Pure nonsense. A gunsmith to be able to buy a used gun? More nonsense.

I'll agree with a lot of this post but the remark on 'capacity is irrelevant'. Unless one can predict the future, one never really knows just how many rounds they may need. It is only irrelevant after the last required round is fired.

For the shooter, one bullet too many is almost always better than one too few...

 

[CraigC]

Okay, I'll word it like this. In 35yrs of hunting with handguns, shooting countless critters from ounces to 2000lbs, capacity has never been relevant. Nor have I ever heard of it being relevant to any other handgun hunter. This ain't John Wick and the Russian mafia didn't kill my dog and steal my car.

 

[Buzznrose]

I don't believe your 40 S&W numbers, they are either wrong or loaded well above accepted working pressure limits for 40S&W. I have never seen factory 180 gr 40S&W get much over 1100 fps from a 4 to 5 inch barrel with 180 gr bulelts in the real world (Double Tap and Buffalo Bore both show most 180 gr loads at ~1100 fps from 4 to 5 inch guns). If you are getting 1275 fps from a G22 then I would argue you are pushing pressures well past SAAMI MAP.

If we are going to step outside of SAAMI then 10mm Auto can be loaded a lot hotter than 1300-1350 fps with a 180gr bullet.

ETA: Hodgdon's online reloading database list ~37 loads for 40S&W using a large variety of powders and one of three different 180gr bullets. Of those loads only three of them exceeds 1100 fps with the fastest one being 1159 fps. The reported test barrel is 4-inches.

Interesting comparison in 10 vs 40 in clay using Underwood 180 grain rounds for each.

 

[Buzznrose]

Okay, I'll word it like this. In 35yrs of hunting with handguns, shooting countless critters from ounces to 2000lbs, capacity has never been relevant. Nor have I ever heard of it being relevant to any other handgun hunter. This ain't John Wick and the Russian mafia didn't kill my dog and steal my car.

CraigC,

I fully acknowledge your experience gained using real guns and ammo on real animals. I don't ignore nor discount your hard earned knowledge.

The OP asked if the 10MM was the new outdoors handgun of choice, or if the 44mag was still 'king the jungle'. The 10MM being carried more does not make it a superior round ballistically than a .44 magnum (or even a .41 mag IMO).

But it is getting pretty popular, for a lot of reasons. Capacity is one, but cost of both gun and ammo, speed to reload, and familiarity with common carry guns make the 10MM pistols a great choice. I'm not talking about dangerous 4 legged critters only...bad 2 legged ones are found in the woods too, often in packs. I'm generally more concerned about them than the 4 legged variety...

But here is a good story about a guy on a military base near Anchorage AK who used his 10MM to stop a charging 700+ lbs bear at close range...2 shots.

[https://www.ammoland.com/2019/10/al...k-10mm-on-elmendorf-richardson/#axzz73BCZguZL

 

[WisBorn]

CraigC,

I fully acknowledge your experience gained using real guns and ammo on real animals. I don't ignore nor discount your hard earned knowledge.

The OP asked if the 10MM was the new outdoors handgun of choice, or if the 44mag was still 'king the jungle'. The 10MM being carried more does not make it a superior round ballistically than a .44 magnum (or even a .41 mag IMO).

But it is getting pretty popular, for a lot of reasons. Capacity is one, but cost of both gun and ammo, speed to reload, and familiarity with common carry guns make the 10MM pistols a great choice. I'm not talking about dangerous 4 legged critters only...bad 2 legged ones are found in the woods too, often in packs. I'm generally more concerned about them than the 4 legged variety...

But here is a good story about a guy on a military base near Anchorage AK who used his 10MM to stop a charging 700+ lbs bear at close range...2 shots.

[https://www.ammoland.com/2019/10/al...k-10mm-on-elmendorf-richardson/#axzz73BCZguZL

@Buzznrose Well said!

 

[CDMCKY]

I practice drawing and firing 2 rounds from my Taurus .454 casull into
a target, at 25 feet (accurately) in 2 seconds, so I'm "ready" if I get
charged by an animal. Now, I've never been "charged" by any wild
animals, (except a porcupine, who I blasted) so though I believe I
won't "choke" (charged by a killer bear) you never know.....

I faced gunfire (at me) more than once, and didn't "choke", but a big,
charging animal is something else...

 

[Buckeye63]

Question---??? Do all you Hi-Cap lover's plan on shooting like Hollywood, 10,000 rounds fired and all misses. It's a jokes, folk's. If they hit the target the show would last 5 minutes?????

10 shot J-Frame

 

[Buckeye63]

Interesting comparison in 10 vs 40 in clay using Underwood 180 grain rounds for each.

All practical purposes.. if you are attacked by a Clay block … not much difference ….
He referred to the 40 S&W as” Slow and weak”
Showing his ignorance…
I guess he doesn’t consider a 9mm a effective round

 

[Kleanbore]

The key word is the *new* outdoorsman. Younger people in their 20s and 30s are by in large not revolver people, they want semi autos, they want the crisp trigger, the fast reloads, the higher capacities.

For what purpose do you think that they want those things?

 

[SwampWolf]

I am doing a bit of thinking about a defensive sidearm for an Alaska fishing trip

As an aside, if you're driving to Alaska, how do you get a pistol through Canada legally? Mail it to some party first? Canada always reminds me of why I hate socialism so much.

 

[SwampWolf]

I'll agree with a lot of this post but the remark on 'capacity is irrelevant'. Unless one can predict the future, one never really knows just how many rounds they may need. It is only irrelevant after the last required round is fired.

For the shooter, one bullet too many is almost always better than one too few...

I agree completely. Imo, there is no real downside to having more ammunition capacity practically speaking, whether you need it or not. There's been this long-standing myth that just because you have more bullets on board means that you are compelled to expend every one every time you have the occasion to shoot at something; the so-called "spray and pray" mentality. Plain old BS. If you've been trained properly and exercise sportsman-like conduct, you won't fire any more rounds with a Glock stuffed to the gills than you would shooting a Thompson Center single-shot.

As Buzznose acknowledged, the future is hard to predict. I know that my personal crystal ball cannot be counted on. The debate about ammunition capacity is a silly one and tends to become judgmental. If you don't want to tote around more ammunition than you think you'll need, then don't. If you feel more secure having more bullets than you might actually need, then take them along. There's no need for anyone to be critical of any one individual's choice in this matter. We all have different needs and wants predicated on circumstances unique to one's own self.

 

[Buzznrose]

For what purpose do you think that they want those things?

It's what they see and know. Cops and LEO's carry them. Most modern movies rarely feature revolvers, unless it's a BUG or an "old guy" shooting it. The young folks are all sporting Glock's or some nickel plates sissy gun...(LOL...just kidding!)

I also think there are less parents introducing their kids to firearms these days. I think the young adults that do venture out into the world of firearms are buying plastic striker fire guns more than metal hammer guns, and way more semi-auto's than revolvers. And if they do go to a gun forum and seek advice, what will they ALWAYS hear? "Go RENT ONE FIRST!!!" How many big bore revolvers are generally for rent at your local range? Dang few at mine. And even if they are there for rent, it's much easier to swallow the price of autoloader ammo than it is to buy a box of .357 or .44 mag.

Also, and I can only speak for myself...but when I'm in the boonies, it just makes sense. I'm often out of cell phone range, and beyond help. If I think I may have to defend myself against the rare bear or not so rare hog, I leave my 9MM carry gun in the car, because I want a .40/.45/10MM. But the chances of me encountering trouble, while probably slim, are much higher that I run into the 2 legged variety. There have always been 2 legged bandits and road robbers, but it just seems like folks have lost there minds these days. So regardless what I'm carrying, if I'm going to be more than 20 minutes from my truck in the boonies and I'm NOT carrying a long gun, I want a full magazine and a spare.

Not trying to argue what's better or worse...just pontificating on what I think is going on.