11 Deg, Forcing Cone

[lv2tinker]

Has anyone redone the forcing cone on your Cap & Ball Revolver to 11 Deg.??
Just curious as I have an Umberti 1851 Navy & 1862 Police in .36 cal. and just did this to several of my SSA .45 Colt's and it improved their accuracy at 25 yrds.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

Might want to ask Jack. (Jackrabbit57) He cut a nice cone on my 1860, but to what degree I do not know.

 

[lv2tinker]

Might want to ask Jack. (Jackrabbit57) He cut a nice cone on my 1860, but to what degree I do not know.

Thanks Sauce, I'm hoping that he will chime in.

 

[woodnbow]

Has anyone redone the forcing cone on your Cap & Ball Revolver to 11 Deg.??
Just curious as I have an Umberti 1851 Navy & 1862 Police in .36 cal. and just did this to several of my SSA .45 Colt's and it improved their accuracy at 25 yrds.

You might check to see if it really needs it. It’s not a cure all.

 

[lv2tinker]

You might check to see if it really needs it. It’s not a cure all.

Thanks, I checked them today and they look good to me but I rented a 11deg forcing cone for my other revolvers (colt .45) as they were sorely in need of re-coning for all the lead bullets that I was sending down the barrel. Helped my groups considerably.

 

[45 Dragoon]

A "ball shooter" should have almost no f.c. so the ball won't lose contact ( and thus tumble) during chamber / bore transition.

A "conical shooter" may benefit more from an extended f.c. because of the extra bullet length.

Mike

 

[Jackrabbit1957]

My first Walker, ASM flavored, had no forcing cone other than a slight chamfer. I cut an 11 degree cone on it and accuracy improved with both ball and conical. The thing about recutting one is if it has a different angle any trace of that original cone can affect accuracy. In other words all or nothing. Most of the revolvers I deal with theses days have the 11degree cut already including the big horse pistols, I E the last Dragoon I did had one cut instead of having just a little chamfer. There's a limited amount of room as far as how much one removes in the process of cutting the cone, especially if it's been cut to a 5 degree angle and you want to change it to an 11 decree angle. In the long run if the pistol doesn't have one you can certainly add it and gain something, if it has a 5 degree leave it alone unless you have the right reamer and then just clean it up a bit.

 

[noelf2]

When I had the barrel replaced on my ROA, I had the forcing cone set to 11 degrees because I rarely shoot round ball through it. Round ball still shoots pretty good though.

 

[Onty]

When I had the barrel replaced on my ROA, I had the forcing cone set to 11 degrees because I rarely shoot round ball through it. Round ball still shoots pretty good though.

Did you notice any improvement with new barrel and 11 degrees forcing cone, over old barrel while it was still in good condition? Talking about both, conical and ball bullets.

 

[.38 Special]

The only data point I can add is that I had it done to an Uberti '60 Army many years ago and it made accuracy worse. (Round balls; I never tried conicals in it.)

Obviously a single example does mean a whole lot in most ways, other than to illustrate the argument that it can't be considered a cure-all.

 

[Bazoo]

I loaned a gent my tooling to do just that over on the cast bullet forum. I don't remember his result.

Found the thread. https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sh...r-Bad-Forcing-Cones&highlight=bazoo+11+cutter

Best I recall he did several while he had the tooling I loaned him.

 

[Blackpowderwarrior]

I loaned a gent my tooling to do just that over on the cast bullet forum. I don't remember his result.

Found the thread. https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sh...r-Bad-Forcing-Cones&highlight=bazoo+11+cutter

Best I recall he did several while he had the tooling I loaned him.

I've been wanting to do exactly this myself.

 

[Bazoo]

Shame I sold the tooling, or I'd pass it around a little here.

 

[Blackpowderwarrior]

Shame I sold the tooling, or I'd pass it around a little here.

That would have been sweet

 

[noelf2]

Did you notice any improvement with new barrel and 11 degrees forcing cone, over old barrel while it was still in good condition? Talking about both, conical and ball bullets.

I got the ROA for a song because it had a badly pitted barrel, especially at the forcing cone. The rest of the gun was fine. I never shot it with the pitted barrel.

 

[Onty]

Here is interesting info:

Iowegun: #6 · Sep 3, 2009

"Ruger uses a 5 degree F/C and S&W uses an 8 degree F/C. Both work well with jacketed bullets with round shaped noses. 8 degree cones are much better with lead bullets and 11 degree cones are even better with wad cutters or semi-wad cutters. Yes, the mouth diameter does increase when you chamfer with a wider angle but it's really not a big deal. A larger diameter mouth will lose a token amount of pressure through the B/C gap, which in turn lowers muzzle velocity a tad. Worst case ... going from a 5 degree cone to an 11 degree cone, you may lose as much as 50 fps with a full magnum load with jacketed bullets. I consider this a small price to pay for enhanced accuracy, less fouling, and less "splashback" on the cylinder face.

Besides optimizing for lead bullets, chamfering a forcing cone can eliminate nasty machine marks or other imperfections that are so common in Rugers and S&Ws. Corrupt forcing cones cause fouling and accuracy problems. Unfortunately, Brownell's no longer sells 8 degree reamers ... only 5 and 11 degree, so for a Ruger, you can clean up the factory cone with a 5 degree reamer or chamfer to 11 degrees for lead bullets. With a S&W, you don't have much choice ... it's either an 11 degree or nothing. You never want to ream with a lesser angle because it will result in a "compound cut" that can foul badly and cause accuracy problems.

TomC, I've chamfered a good many 38/357 forcing cones from 5 to 11 degrees and never came close to running out of barrel diameter. You really don't go deeper than the factory cone .... just wider so a "compound cut" (step) is never an issue but certainly would be if you reamed with an angle less than the existing cone."

From https://www.rugerforum.net/threads/11-degree-forcing-cone-angle.15930/

I didn't know that on S&W revolvers forcing cone is 8 degrees.

 

[Bazoo]

That information is much what I used when I was figuring it out. I wish I would have went with a 5 degree cutter rather than the 11 degree. In order for me to clean up the forcing cone, I had to widen the mouth more than I wanted. If I'd went with a 5 degree, it would have just cleaned up what was there with minimal stock removal.

With all due respect to Mr Iowgan, He has it backwards that a shallower angle would cause a compound cut. If you have an 8 degree and use a 5 degree cutter, then you deepen the forcing cone, and when you reach the full diameter at the mouth, its longer, and won't have a compound angle. Contrary, if you have an 8 degree and use an 11 degree, you will have to cut it much wider to eliminate the compound cut. So with that scenario, if you stop cutting when you see you're as wide as the existing forcing cone, and look, you see a compound angle, and you have no choice but to keep going and cut it wider to remove the compound angle.

I am not an experienced gunsmith like Iowegan is, but I suspect he got that backwards in his mind and wrote it wrong, because when I used this advice to cut a forcing cone I ran into this.

I tried this primarily on a GP100 that was leading. I never figured it out either btw.