12ga vs 20ga for a slug gun?

[MidwestMatthew]

Being in a slug state, I'm thinking of getting my son a Mossberg 500 combo for this year's deer season (yes, I know it's getting a little late...)

Personally, I like a 20-gauge slug gun, but this being a combo setup, we're wondering if 12-gauge might be the way to go because of the advantages on the smoothbore side of things.

Looking at the slugs available to choose from, it looks like most brands use identical projectiles for their 20ga and 12ga offerings, with only the sabot being a larger diameter. Does that mean the ballistics of both should be pretty much the same?

 

[entropy]

Get a 12 and use reduced recoil slugs. He'll thank you when he's an adult and has a much more versatile gun.

 

[Arkansas Paul]

If shooting full bore, rifled slugs, the 12-gauge has an advantage.
If shooting sabot slugs, the advantage isn't nearly as much, and I'd probably go with a 20-gauge, even for myself.

With buckshot, the 12 has an obvious and large advantage.
With birdshot, the 12 has an advantage of potentially having a heavier payload.

I'd go with the 20-gauge. You can do almost anything with it that you could with the 12.
If he wants to upgrade to a 12-gauge later when he's older, well we're not talking about a custom job that costs thousands of dollars. You can pick up a 12-gauge pump shotgun at a pawnshop in the $250 range, at least where I live.

 

[bassjam]

You mention smoothbore and sabots so I want to add a little more information. Sabots are designed for rifled barrels, and you can get some great range and accuracy with a rifled barrel and a sabot slug. A buddy had a Savage 220 bolt action in 20 ga which was amazingly accurate at 100 yards and easily gave him a range of 150 yards (and could probably push that to 200).

But smooth bores don't necessarily play nice with sabots, your best bet with them is a rifled slug, either Foster or Brenneke. In my 870 Remington sluggers (foster slugs) were good out to about 60 yards, the Brenneke could hit a paper plate out to maybe 75 yards if I had a solid rest. In hunting situations I limited shots to 50 yards or less.

I think it's a wash between the two gauges for deer, it's not going to know if it was hit with a 7/8oz 20ga slug or a 1oz 12ga slug. This is antecedal evidence but I started with a 12 ga, and 5 years later got myself a 20 ga for bird and rabbit hunting. My brother and a buddy started with a 20 ga, and 20 years later they both still exclusively use 20 ga for deer, rabbit, squirrel, and birds.

 

[DustyGmt]

Get a 12 and use reduced recoil slugs. He'll thank you when he's an adult and has a much more versatile gun.

12ga all day every day. Like .223 vs .22lr. The 12 will be much more versatile in the future and with reduced recoil loads they won't be quite as tame as 20ga but damn close enough that I wouldn't shortdxxx myself with a 20ga. He's a growing boy, if it was a woman's defense gun I might suggest a 20ga but no reason not to go with 12ga. Even if he's a string bean now, he will grow and handle that 12 like a pro

 

[Sav .250]

Get a 12 and use reduced recoil slugs. He'll thank you when he's an adult and has a much more versatile gun.

Enough said...............

 

[Slamfire]

I went 12 Ga in the Mossberg and the M870. Purchased a smooth bore slug barrel for the Mossberg, the Rem 870 was an old Cleveland Police gun, came with a slug barrel. The Mossberg made a huge entry hole, and outstanding exit hole in one deer. It did not run far, and it looked as though someone had hose blowing blood on the ground, and tree trunks. The animal bled out very quickly. I did use a Brenneke slug that day.

At the check in station, lots of deer with slugs, all of them dropped quickly. Can't say what was the most popular, but probably 12 Ga. The 12Ga tosses a bigger everything, and I think bigger is better.

 

[bassjam]

12ga all day every day. Like .223 vs .22lr. The 12 will be much more versatile in the future and with reduced recoil loads they won't be quite as tame as 20ga but damn close enough that I wouldn't shortdxxx myself with a 20ga. He's a growing boy, if it was a woman's defense gun I might suggest a 20ga but no reason not to go with 12ga. Even if he's a string bean now, he will grow and handle that 12 like a pro

In no way is comparing a 20 & 12 ga like comparing a .223 vs a .22lr. There's not an animal in North America that a 20ga couldn't kill reliably. And it's not really about versatility either, ANYTHING you can do with a 12ga you can also do with a 20ga, they'll both shoot just as far and just as fast. When I was younger and thought I had something to prove I was all about the 12 ga. But now, even though I'm still in good shape and by no means old just hitting 40 a few weeks ago, I much prefer to carry less weight when I'm out in the field and generally go with a 20 ga.

 

[earlthegoat2]

For sabot slugs, 20 ga every single time.

For an all around shotgun, 20 ga works for about 100% of my non deer hunting.

I don’t hunt ducks or geese and I use light TSS loads for Turkey.

I personally believe 20 ga is superior for HD as well with No 3 buckshot.

If you hunt ducks or geese you will want to go 12 ga.

 

[jmr40]

Just a thought. If you're concerned about recoil; from equal weight guns 20 ga will be significantly less. But weights are almost never equal. In comparable guns with equal barrel lengths a 20 will be around1 lb lighter. And recoil will be the same or more from a 20.

For most hunting with birdshot you'll always be able to put more pellets in the air with a 12 and get better patterns. But that isn't always the goal. I like my short barreled 20 ga loaded with 3" loads for turkey hunting. The shot string will be long from front to back which is a serious handicap when shooting running or flying game. But for stationary targets like turkey it doesn't matter and the lighter, more compact gun is a lot easier to carry all day. Especially in brush.

With slugs, I don't see a huge difference in performance. Just don't expect a significant recoil reduction using a 20.

 

[Dustbowl]

If you hunt a lot of waterfowl with steel shot get a 12ga. The extra payload helps. If you are getting a combo rifled barrel and shot barrel mainly a deer gun with some bird shooting as a secondary get a 20ga. The sabot slugs in 20ga with a red dot or scope are accurate to 150-200 yards if you are up to it. I’ve killed a lot of deer with a 1100 20GA and 2-3/4” Hornady SST

 

[bearcreek]

Neither. Get an inline muzzleloader.

 

[tmd16556]

I agree that a lot depends on what else he might hunt with it. I like 20 more for any hunt where I need to walk more. Lighter guns are easier to carry. Also with a 20 you can carry more shells for the same weight/volume as a 12. This is more helpful for doves than deer, since there are a lot more misses with birds.
Now if I’m getting dropped off at my stand, that advantage is gone. I still shoot 20s a lot because I like the weight and feel, but with factory loads, you tend to get a bonus 1/4 oz (7/8 vs 1 1/8) of shot at the same price per box.

 

[DustyGmt]

In no way is comparing a 20 & 12 ga like comparing a .223 vs a .22lr.

Point taken. That was a stretch....

Eta: I usually recommend whatever I tend to favor, alot of times based on experience, but not always. In the case of hunting with a 20ga and 12ga, I have none. I just prefer the 12ga and feel there is a marked advantage in the availability of shells and payload, potency, etc. It might be a lil stout for a young man, but that's a small hurdle.

 

[bassjam]

I agree that a lot depends on what else he might hunt with it. I like 20 more for any hunt where I need to walk more. Lighter guns are easier to carry. Also with a 20 you can carry more shells for the same weight/volume as a 12. This is more helpful for doves than deer, since there are a lot more misses with birds.
Now if I’m getting dropped off at my stand, that advantage is gone. I still shoot 20s a lot because I like the weight and feel, but with factory loads, you tend to get a bonus 1/4 oz (7/8 vs 1 1/8) of shot at the same price per box.

I'd say the bonus is only 1/8 oz more shot. All of my promo loads are 7/8oz for 20 and 1oz for 12. All of my heavy target or high brass is 1oz for 20 and 1-1/8oz for 12. The only place I see a 1/4oz difference is the remington express loads which use 1-1/4oz for 12 ga. This is all 2-3/4", I don't know what the differences are with 3" shells.

 

[PapaG]

Been slugging since the early sixties with everything from an 870 with riot barrel through 37 Deerslayer, Hastings barrels on 870, 1100, 11-87, Savage 210, H&R 12 and 20, and finally with my 220 Savage. Killed deer with everything from Foster slugs though Brennekes, Lightfields, SST, and Accutip plus TruBall and other Federal stuff.
Also, handgun in 357, 44, and 45 plus several muzzleloaders.
Now, my choice today, at the ripe old age of 78 and with fused spine, pacemaker, and a host of other crap, is either my 220 20 ga, my inline 50with BH209 and Hornady Boredrivers, or my Henry 357 Max. The Super is on there also but of all, the 220 is like having my old Model 70 in my hands.
12 ga SST ruined half a deer but that was a quartering away shot and the stationary deer took a step just as the shot went off. SST 20 failed to expand on a broadside at 18 yards. Still took out both lungs.
All have succeeded,some better than others
Shotgun only, 20 and Accutips for me.

 

[GooseGestapo]

I’ll second PapaG.
Except for pass shooting waterfowl, or deer with buckshot, I prefer the 20ga.
Even for occasional mixed bag (squirrels during deer season) I prefer the 20ga.

My “slug gun” is the Savage M220 with rifled bore. Top load, when/if you find them is the Remington Accutips. Yeah, $3 a pop!
My alternative is either the Federal 3/4oz Sabot slug ($1.25ea) or a home brew slug.
I’m using the Lee .578” REAL mold for a 1oz slug. Loaded in a 7/8oz shot cup over a 28ga filler wad and fold crimp. 19.0gr of LongShot. Runs about 1,200fps.

I also use a #1 buckshot load using Lee .31” round ball. 10in a 2-3/4oz hull. From a Imp.Mod. Choke they’re awesome. I’ve killed three deer, a pig, and a coyote. All were bang/flops to 40yds. My Hulu/CZ Golden Pheasant 20ga SxS loves this load. At 25yds, with right barrel and ImpMod choke tube, It’ll hold a 9” paper plate at 25yds.
Likewise a TriStar Raptor SA. Feeds like tap water!

I’ve got a REM 870 I shot a perfect score with for a National record at NRA PPC nationals, only to be beat by 1x! 20” rifle sights with Improved mod. choke. Also, a REM 1187 Special Purpose cami with 4 barrels. 28” VR, 21” VR, 21” RS IC, and a 21” Cantilever scope mount w/RC.

BUT, for the shotgun/slug or muzzle loader only Corp of Eng land, give me the 20ga Savage b/a.

 

[WisBorn]

The OP mentioned a combination shotgun, with a 2 barrel setup. I definitely would go with a 12 gauge do to the versatility, which is why you buy a combination gun in the first place. The only reason I would go with a 20 gauge is if your son needs a youth model because of his size.

I agree with other posts that the Savage 220 bolt action shotguns are super accurate. When I lived in IL I had one and liked ringing steel at 250 yards.

 

[Armored farmer]

The 20ga savage 220 is the benchmark of slug guns.

Lots of states are adopting straight-wall cartridge guns as deer legal. If your state is one of those, I would opt for the mossberg combo in 12ga. A deer rifle might be next year's gun of choice. 12 ga shotguns for turkey, geese, and clay games. A 12 ga payload of steel shot is better than the 20ga imho.

 

[PapaG]

I have bought two of the 500 combo guns in 20. Gave one to my son, another to a friends daughter. They deliver a deer a year. Neither has usef, I think, the shot barrel.
I never disagree with Mr. Farmer and he is right on about the 220 being the gold standard (with the exception of the Tar Hunt which at $3K is out of reach of most)/

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

My state was smooth bore shotgun slug only for many years. I killed many deer with a 12 ga 870, every one of them would have been just as dead if I had used a 20 ga. When rifled barrels were allowed I bought one and used sabot slugs.
When the law changed again and muzzle loaders (traditional) were allowed during the shotgun season that is what I used.
Then straight wall cartridges, a couple more rifles bought.
Now, in the infinite wisdom of the state, Bottle neck cartridges firing 35 cal to 50 cal bullets are legal. Your .243, 30-30, and .270 are not legal. Your 458 Win mag, 460 Steyr, or 416 Rigby are all good to go.

 

[bassjam]

Now, in the infinite wisdom of the state, Bottle neck cartridges firing 35 cal to 50 cal bullets are legal. Your .243, 30-30, and .270 are not legal. Your 458 Win mag, 460 Steyr, or 416 Rigby are all good to go.

That's frustratingly hilarious. I guess Iowa deer are just too tough to be humanely harvested by a 30-30....

 

[PapaG]

Same in IL. The silliness, that is. At the small end,30 Carbine out of a revolver or single shot is ok. Big end, any straight wall cartridge with at least 500 ft lb energy. ML, 45 or larger. Slugs and sabots 20 ga min.
Add in single shot straight wall rifles starting in Jan.
I should be happy. I can remember in ‘57 when they issued a few hundred archery permits.
I remember lobbying for ml shotguns for turkey only to be told they weren’t efficient enough.
Lots of evolution in 65 years, not all of it sensible.

 

[Barnfixer]

When I was around 13 years old my dad got me a Remington 1100 20 gauge slug gun. He insisted on a 20 for some reason. For a slug gun it is accurate with the rifle sights. At some point I picked up a 28” mod barrel for it and still use the gun. Almost 50 years later I asked my son what he’d want me to keep if I’d decide to clean the cabinet, he said don’t get rid of the 1100. I’d go with the 20 now, it’ll always get used.

 

[Old Hobo]

If shooting full bore, rifled slugs, the 12-gauge has an advantage.
If shooting sabot slugs, the advantage isn't nearly as much, and I'd probably go with a 20-gauge, even for myself.

With buckshot, the 12 has an obvious and large advantage.
With birdshot, the 12 has an advantage of potentially having a heavier payload.

I'd go with the 20-gauge. You can do almost anything with it that you could with the 12.
If he wants to upgrade to a 12-gauge later when he's older, well we're not talking about a custom job that costs thousands of dollars. You can pick up a 12-gauge pump shotgun at a pawnshop in the $250 range, at least where I live.

Good points, all.

I just wanted to add that with a 20 ga. pump with interchangeable barrels, he could use the rifled barrel for deer (MANY adults use the rifle barrelled 20 and sabot slugs). Should he wish to go duck or goose hunting, he could swap to the smooth-bore barrel (with screw-in choke selection) and use 20 ga 3" magnums. With a 3" shell, the 20 ga. gives the performance of the 16 gauge and lord knows that the 16 has gathered millions of ducks and geese for the supper table. My paternal grandfather was keen on the 16 ga.

Also, I like what you said about when he grows into adulthood, he can go out and buy himself a 12 gauge should he feel the need. I sure don't only own just one shotgun or one rifle.

I bought my grandson a 20 ga for turkey hunting. One of the chokes is Extra Full. I also bought him some turkey loads for this shotgun. His dad's property has turkeys living there. Driving onto that land one day on up to their house, there was old Tom Turkey and his hens right by that gravel road. Those turkeys were only 50 feet away. Wasn't there to hunt, but if I was, heaven knows that it wouldn't have taken any sort of 12 ga to put that meat on the table.
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