frenchie85
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- Jan 21, 2011
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I'm looking for a 14.5 complete ar 15. I'm trying to keep it around $800. If anyone can help thanks
14.5" ar 15
- Thread starter frenchie85
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unwise11
Member
You realize unless it has a permantently attached flash hider it will be a registered SBR, right?
Grunt Medic TXARNG
Member
frenchie - are you looking for used, or for leads on deals on new rifles? Slickdeals.com has links to a number of ARs for $600-$700; while most of those are 16" barrels, occasionally they have 14.5" barreled models with the 1-1/2" flashider. Is there a specific reason you want the 14.5" length?
Birddog1911
Member
Your thread is just too full of holes. You don't tell us just what it is that your after. That said, if you look hard, you might find a Spikes upper with the 14.5" barrel and a mid length gas system that would serve you well.
frenchie85
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I already went to spike.com they only have a 10.5 barrel. I would like the AR to be new. There just so many companys out there. I was thinking about spike with a 10.5 barrel with a 1 1/2 flash hinder. And it would be around 800
Grunt Medic TXARNG
Member
Check out Slickguns, where links to gun sales are posted - http://www.slickguns.com/category/rifles?page=1
Some deals on now at the above link -
S&W Model M&P15 Carbine 811003 Optics Ready - $699 + Free Shipping
DPMS 5.56x45 Oracle in store at Cabelas + 2 Mags and Hard Case - $699.99
16" HBar Custom Rifle UT Arms w/Billet Lower Complete rifle - $595
Or roll your own -
CMMG M4LEP II Piston 5.56mm complete uppers for only $545 + $20 shipping
Stag Arms Upper Half 2H 5.56mm, 16 inch barrel, BUIS - $505 + $10 Shipping
Spikes Tactical 16" M4 5.56/.223 Upper Receiver complete - $499.95 + Free Shipping
CMMG M4LE DI 5.56mm complete uppers for only $430 + $20 shipping
DSA ZM4 Forged 7075T6 A3 AR15 Upper Receiver; upper only w/o BCG - $275
Happy shopping!
Some deals on now at the above link -
S&W Model M&P15 Carbine 811003 Optics Ready - $699 + Free Shipping
DPMS 5.56x45 Oracle in store at Cabelas + 2 Mags and Hard Case - $699.99
16" HBar Custom Rifle UT Arms w/Billet Lower Complete rifle - $595
Or roll your own -
CMMG M4LEP II Piston 5.56mm complete uppers for only $545 + $20 shipping
Stag Arms Upper Half 2H 5.56mm, 16 inch barrel, BUIS - $505 + $10 Shipping
Spikes Tactical 16" M4 5.56/.223 Upper Receiver complete - $499.95 + Free Shipping
CMMG M4LE DI 5.56mm complete uppers for only $430 + $20 shipping
DSA ZM4 Forged 7075T6 A3 AR15 Upper Receiver; upper only w/o BCG - $275
Happy shopping!
Zerodefect
member
Don't go shorter than 14.5 with a pinned A2x flash hider.
BCM USA has a bunch of nice 14.5 pinned uppers. Even has a few with rifle length rails.
Gas length goes to barrel length, and the dwell time window for best timing is 5-7" from port to muzzle. A 14.5" usually has carbine gas as a result.
Midlength can be made to work, but it narrows the window of what ammo functions best, and the more it's tweaked, the more harsh it gets with full power loads, or the more unreliable it gets with white box junk fodder.
Same reason dissipators are running midlength gas and leaving the rifle length sight block inoperative. Functions more reliably. Looks or sight radius aside, it's no fun if it's not set up in the optimum window, because when things need to work, all the cool factor isn't worth spit when it goes click.
Never fails a camera is pointed my way . . .
Midlength can be made to work, but it narrows the window of what ammo functions best, and the more it's tweaked, the more harsh it gets with full power loads, or the more unreliable it gets with white box junk fodder.
Same reason dissipators are running midlength gas and leaving the rifle length sight block inoperative. Functions more reliably. Looks or sight radius aside, it's no fun if it's not set up in the optimum window, because when things need to work, all the cool factor isn't worth spit when it goes click.
Never fails a camera is pointed my way . . .
Go to Bravo Company and get the midlength. It shoots smooth, points well and doesn't give up much in terms of velocity. You could also consider a build from Ranier Arms. They carry a few premium 14.5" barrels that could be used for a build. I'm gathering parts right now for a precision 14.5" build. It should make for a nice 300 yard rig. I'll probably try a Noveske barrell this time.
Birddog1911
Member
Ask all of the insurgents and terrorists that have been killed by US made M4s.
Bravo Company (BCM) is top notch, and if you're careful, you should be able to keep it at your price range, or just slightly higher. I run a BCM 14.5" midlength with a PWS FSC556 comp pinned. Hell of a nice, mild shooter, and quick to get back on target.
Gary G23
Member
Tirod,
Have you owned a 14.5" mid-length?
Have you owned a 14.5" mid-length?
I like Bravo Company's stuff, but if I remember, Smartgunner had some good prices on Daniel Defense equipment too. You might want to check that out.
The 14.5" midlength does shoot sweet, but even BCM will warn that the configuration is meant to be run with full power ammo. I take this to mean 5.56 spec, rather than .223. Still, I've run a butt load of less than milspec handloads through 14.5" midlengths and haven't seen any problems.
I've found the "smoothness" of the 14.5 middie to be something akin to an 18" with a rifle length gas system. I like 'em.
The 14.5" midlength does shoot sweet, but even BCM will warn that the configuration is meant to be run with full power ammo. I take this to mean 5.56 spec, rather than .223. Still, I've run a butt load of less than milspec handloads through 14.5" midlengths and haven't seen any problems.
I've found the "smoothness" of the 14.5 middie to be something akin to an 18" with a rifle length gas system. I like 'em.
Red Cent
Member
Doesn't pinning the flash hider, comp,....depend upon pre-ban or post-ban?
ny32182
Member
In this case it will determine whether the rifle is an SBR or not. A 14.5" threaded barrel is an SBR, whereas a 14.5" with 1.5" pinned muzzle device is not.
TexasRifleman
Moderator Emeritus
No. Unless the receiver has a tax stamp for SBR or Machinegun the overall length of the barrel needs to be 16". If it's a 14.5" barrel the flash hider needs to be permanently attached to force the total to at least 16". If it's not permanently attached then it's not 16" total.
Rubber_Duck
Member
For $800 I would buy a BCM 14.5" midlength or carbine, and just save up some more money to buy the lower. You will have a much better rifle as a result. BCM is top notch value.
If I recall, you can get a 14.5" BCM upper with a bolt carrier group, pinned A2X flash hider and magpul hand guards for around $700. I've also seen complete Spike's lowers with everything, including the ST-T2 buffer for around $225. It think that's going to be about as good as it gets for what you want while staying close to your stated budget.
If you had someone that can put it together for you, you may have more options. If you can live with a carbine gas system, your options may open up a bit too.
If you had someone that can put it together for you, you may have more options. If you can live with a carbine gas system, your options may open up a bit too.
Birddog1911
Member
I missed this earlier. Honestly, I've never heard such err...stuff, before.
Provided that the company has properly gassed the rifle, a midlength carbine will function with ALL ammo. A buddy of mine runs a CMMG, not a rifle that I personally would buy, with no issues. My midlength BCM eats everything. In fact, until I read this, I'd never heard a single issue with midlengths; especially BCM's. There are thousands of us running middie BCM's, DD's, Spikes, CMMG, etc., without any issue with a midlength gas system.
In fact, it is well known that a carbine will run better with a midlength gas system that with a carbine system. It's physics; the sooner that the gas enters the tube, the greater the force. Hence, adding two inches to the gas system has less energy behind the gas.
For the record: I've had a few beers, and I might be muddling up the terminology, but the principle stands. I'll never own another carbine unless it is midlength.
Provided that the company has properly gassed the rifle, a midlength carbine will function with ALL ammo. A buddy of mine runs a CMMG, not a rifle that I personally would buy, with no issues. My midlength BCM eats everything. In fact, until I read this, I'd never heard a single issue with midlengths; especially BCM's. There are thousands of us running middie BCM's, DD's, Spikes, CMMG, etc., without any issue with a midlength gas system.
In fact, it is well known that a carbine will run better with a midlength gas system that with a carbine system. It's physics; the sooner that the gas enters the tube, the greater the force. Hence, adding two inches to the gas system has less energy behind the gas.
For the record: I've had a few beers, and I might be muddling up the terminology, but the principle stands. I'll never own another carbine unless it is midlength.
Birddog1911
Member
I did forget that I'll have to choke down a carbine gas system when I build my true to spec M4 for my military collection. But I bet that I don't shoot it as often!
ny32182
Member
If you "choke it down" it isn't true to spec, is it? 
I can see why midlength is good for 16" barrels. With 16" barrel and carbine gas, you have extra dwell time vs. the military spec 14.5" with carbine gas, and thus more total gas pulse. 16" with midlength gas, it looks like you'll be getting a pulse generally between the 20" milspec and 14.5" milspec.
14.5" barrel with midlength gas is something that worries me as a casual observer, and I think that is what people are talking about above. It is less gas than the military configuration. I'm sure it can be made to run with the right port sizing, etc (witness the MK18, with super short dwell time, but then again those are more high strung with carbine gas system and opened up port). Since the 14.5 midlength is not a military configuration and doesn't even seem to fall between any two proven military configurations, I'm skeptical.
14.5 and even 16" barrels with carbine gas systems have been around and running just fine for quite a while.
I can see why midlength is good for 16" barrels. With 16" barrel and carbine gas, you have extra dwell time vs. the military spec 14.5" with carbine gas, and thus more total gas pulse. 16" with midlength gas, it looks like you'll be getting a pulse generally between the 20" milspec and 14.5" milspec.
14.5" barrel with midlength gas is something that worries me as a casual observer, and I think that is what people are talking about above. It is less gas than the military configuration. I'm sure it can be made to run with the right port sizing, etc (witness the MK18, with super short dwell time, but then again those are more high strung with carbine gas system and opened up port). Since the 14.5 midlength is not a military configuration and doesn't even seem to fall between any two proven military configurations, I'm skeptical.
14.5 and even 16" barrels with carbine gas systems have been around and running just fine for quite a while.
Birddog1911
Member
Carbine length gas systems were originally designed for 11.5" barrels.
If there is any doubt about the reliability of a midlength gas system on a 14.5" barrel, just ask Pat Rogers, dozens of other competitors, hundreds of owners, etc., etc.. Of course, you have to take into account that the barrel not be over or undergassed. That is one problem that is well noted with some companies.
As stated by someone who is more articulate than me, "...there is another important and overlooked factor in the equation which is TIMING. IE, when the energy (gas pulse) is delivered to the BCG and not just how much energy is delivered to the BCG.
A more balanced configuration of timing, gas port size and dwell time gives you a better balance of functional reliability, smooth operation and lower stress/parts wear and tear. Puts you more central to the operating envelope so it can adsorb greater variations in ammo, temperature, and fouling and still operate."
Ask anyone who runs a Daniel Defense or a BCM midlength 14.5" if they have had any troubles, and I doubt that you will get an affirmative. Yes, that includes me. I've said it before; I never knew that a carbine could be so fast back on target and shoot so nice until I purchased my 14.5 middie BCM.
If there is any doubt about the reliability of a midlength gas system on a 14.5" barrel, just ask Pat Rogers, dozens of other competitors, hundreds of owners, etc., etc.. Of course, you have to take into account that the barrel not be over or undergassed. That is one problem that is well noted with some companies.
As stated by someone who is more articulate than me, "...there is another important and overlooked factor in the equation which is TIMING. IE, when the energy (gas pulse) is delivered to the BCG and not just how much energy is delivered to the BCG.
A more balanced configuration of timing, gas port size and dwell time gives you a better balance of functional reliability, smooth operation and lower stress/parts wear and tear. Puts you more central to the operating envelope so it can adsorb greater variations in ammo, temperature, and fouling and still operate."
Ask anyone who runs a Daniel Defense or a BCM midlength 14.5" if they have had any troubles, and I doubt that you will get an affirmative. Yes, that includes me. I've said it before; I never knew that a carbine could be so fast back on target and shoot so nice until I purchased my 14.5 middie BCM.
Gary G23
Member
Good post Birddog1911. No matter what forum you are on, it seems the people that are critical of the 14.5" mid-length are those that have never owned one.
They can argue all day that they shouldn't work in theory, but ignore the fact that they work well in reality.
I have owned FOUR 14.5" mid-lengths (still own three). Got rid of the CMMG but still have two Sabres and one BCM. I have put thousands of rounds through these guns. I have NEVER had a malfunction.
It is the perfect configuration IMO.
They can argue all day that they shouldn't work in theory, but ignore the fact that they work well in reality.
I have owned FOUR 14.5" mid-lengths (still own three). Got rid of the CMMG but still have two Sabres and one BCM. I have put thousands of rounds through these guns. I have NEVER had a malfunction.
It is the perfect configuration IMO.
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This thread has gotten to me and I'm itching to build another middie 14.5, but want to put a battle comp on the end of it. I'm kind of on the fence though. I was just going to use one of Ranier Arms "Select" barrels. I've heard good things about them and want to try one. My dilemma is whether I want to chop the barrel to 14.5 and use a Battlecomp 1.5 or just have the barrel chopped only short enough so that I can reach the legal 16" using a Battlecomp 1.0. The extra little bit of barrel that I get using the 1.0 will make an almost negligible difference in velocity, but if it's an increase that doesn't cost me anything, I'll take it.
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