147gr Bayou - some rounds failing gauge test

[rdtompki]

I'm loading 147gr Bayou TC bullets using mixed brass. OAL is 1.14", Lee sizing/decapping die, Hornady expander and Hornady seating die. The cases come through the sizing die fine; I've tested a number in the gauge. I'm expanding just enough to get the round to sit in the case as the bullet/case rises into the seating die (Hornady LNL press). 1 out of ten rounds don't pass when I drop the rounds into the gauge block.

I have no problem with my 124gr rounds, a much shorter bullet. The problem isn't restricted to a particular head stamp. Any suggestions? Is this just a case of tolerance build up where the deeper seated bullet is just expanding the case enough to be out-of-spec?

 

[rcmodel]

Probably that.
Or crooked seating because the seating stem doesn't fit the bullet as well as it should..

The longer bullets may be seating deep enough in the case to cause a bulge in the thicker tapered case wall further down too.

Anyway, how do they fit in YOUR barrel?

That's much more important then how they fit in a Min spec case gage!

Rc

 

[rdtompki]

They don't fit in the barrel (SA 9mm 1911).

 

[345 DeSoto]

I bought a Lee Sliding sleeve Seating Die, and that cured my "crooked bullet" syndrome...then I taper crimp with a seperate die.

 

[steve4102]

What does your crimp measure?

Are you crimping in a separate Step?

What crimp die are you using?

1.14 seems long, start here from the beginning.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=506678

 

[higgite]

You say you're expanding the brass, but you say nothing about crimping the flare back smooth again. Are crimping?

With mixed brass, if you are crimping, could it be that different case lengths of different brass aren't crimping the same amount, leaving too much flare in some cases and/or overcrimping and bulging others?

Have you pulled any of the offending bullets to see how they measure up against the non-offenders? Different diameter, for example?

 

[rdtompki]

I'm using a Hornady seating die without a separate crimp die. The neck, after seating is around .379". 1.14" is less than the 1.169" in Hodgdon and significantly greater than the 1.058" (for a cone-shaped lead bullet) in Lyman. I'll pull these rounds and measure the bullets. I can also back off on the expander although I'm trying to avoid having the seating process scrape off any more coating than necessary.

I'm trying to figure out if I can get a softer load (for my wife) with the 147gr versus the 124gr.

I can accept some fall out while I'm just loading 10-20 rounds at a time, but I'd have to solve this if I find a load that works better for her. BTW, I'm stuck with WSF right now; it works but it's sooty.

I also have some new Starline brass in reserve; I can run 10-20 rounds with that and see what things look like.

I'm new to reloading and like the challenge, the number of variables being a part of that challenge.

 

[wlkjr]

I agree with the last two posts about the crimp. I am using the same bullet with good success but in a Glock 17 and 26. It is necessary to crimp to get the flare out and I'm using Dillon dies on a 650.
I found it necessary to do the plunk test and seat at about 1.125-1.130
That bullet has become my favorite.

 

[Blue68f100]

Mark the brass and bullet up and drop it in your barrel and see where the problem is. I suspect your OAL is too long. My guns require a slightly short 1.135" OAL. If this is the case it's hitting the rifling. With the Hornady seating die if you spin the case with the bullet inside the alignment tube it will self center.

 

[rdtompki]

I agree with the last two posts about the crimp. I am using the same bullet with good success but in a Glock 17 and 26. It is necessary to crimp to get the flare out and I'm using Dillon dies on a 650.
I found it necessary to do the plunk test and seat at about 1.125-1.130
That bullet has become my favorite.

This may be the winner together with the other good suggestions. I took measurements on the four rounds that barely passed and six rounds that flunked. Case dimensions and all bullet dimensions were very consistent. The common thread was the four bullets that passed were all 1.14 on the button. The six that didn't pass were all greater than 1.14.

I'm going to make some samples tonight at 1.13 with a crimp using the Hornady seating/crimp die. I'd like to avoid, if possible, going to a separate crimp die since I'll be full-up once I add a bullet feeder die unless I drop my RCBS lock-out die. I do 100% visual powder inspection, but as a newbie I've found that small press glitches can take my attention away from the powder level.

Really appreciate the great assistance. I'll post back with results. We have a range trip tomorrow and it just occurred to me that I can run my test rounds back through the seating die with a crimp.

 

[gamestalker]

I know it's more expensive, but man I'm glad I only load with jacketed bullets. I've never had one single round not function 100%, in any firearm, in more than 30 yrs. of reloading.

What's more, I've never even owned a case gauge, my gauges are the barrels. But I guess if I were loading lead or coated bullets, it might change that aspect?

GS

 

[moonman16]

I've used a bunch of the COATED BAYOU 147's it's a good projectile.
When working up new loads always PLUNK TEST IN YOUR BARREL.
Some chambers are cut SHALLOW and need a reduced O.A.L.
I always SEAT in ONE STATION and do the CRIMP IN ANOTHER.

COATED PROJECTILES are the wave of the future, TECHNOLOGY AT WORK.
Better than Plated and CHEAPER THAN JACKETED for handgun use.
Powder Coatings are being experimented more and more with rifles

GOOD LUCK.

 

[rdtompki]

All the rounds that "fit" the gauge pass the same test in my barrel. I ran some additional rounds yesterday and one of the rounds that failed, an S&B case, had an obvious bulge at the location of the bullet base - so obvious you could see it. All the bullets I've measured have been dead on. I'll pull that bullet and measure in the next day or so

I can see where a separate crimp station would give a bit more control over the process, but do you really need that for a handgun cartridge that doesn't require a roll crimp? And the sort of "failure" I can see with the S&B case wouldn't have been resolved by a crimp station.

I'm going to remove my expander and install a PTX in order to try the bullet feeder die. If, down the line, I want to crimp separately I'll drop the RCBS lock-out die.

We'll see how the 147gr bullets work in terms of recoil and accuracy. If it turns out we prefer these over 124gr then I'll certainly keep working the problem, next step being to load them into some know good new brass.

 

[wlkjr]

Sometimes I get a piece of bad brass that won't case gague. Just break it down and chunk the brass. You do need to crimp but not a roll crimp.

 

[higgite]

I can see where a separate crimp station would give a bit more control over the process, but do you really need that for a handgun cartridge that doesn't require a roll crimp? And the sort of "failure" I can see with the S&B case wouldn't have been resolved by a crimp station.

Keep us posted on how it works out for you seating and crimping the coated bullets with one die. I just last week loaded my first 100 Bayou Bullets 124gr RN that I seated and crimped (just enough to remove the flare) with one die. They passed the plunk test and fired without a bobble. In the next week or two, I hope to try the same with some SNS coated 125gr RN.

 

[rdtompki]

I gave Bayou a call and they suggested 1.15" OAL which seems to have resolved my plunk test issue for all but two head stamps which I must have picked up at the range. The 147gr is a long bullet and I could see in some of the previous failures a high spot in the case at the base of the bullet. The case gauge is a good indicator for my barrel although a round that doesn't quite make it into the gauge will plunk into the barrel.

I also load 124gr Bayou with absolutely no issue - much shorter bullet of course.

My wife loves how the 147gr shoots so its my wave of the future