Do I Need a Taper Crimp Die?

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GarySTL

GarySTL

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I'm loading 40 S&W with my new Hornady LnL AP press. I'm using the Hornady bullet seating die, but not crimping. The loads chamber fine, but I've been careful to just barely expand the case mouth to allow bullet placement. In fact I often have to support the bullet to ensure it goes into the seating die without tipping.

I had planned to slightly increase the amount of case expansion so the bullet sits a little better in the case, but I'm concerned about ease of chambering if I do.

It seems that a taper crimp die would solve the "problem". Does the Hornady taper crimp die also seat the bullet? Looking at their catalog page I'm not certain if it does.

While I'm posting, what about Hornady's powder through expanders? Are they compatible with the automatic powder drop measure on the LnL press?
 
If I remember correctly the Hornady seater also crimps. You don't need a separate crimping die but it is more convenient because it separates the OAL and crimping adjustments. I would say you need a little more flare so you don't risk damaging the bullet during seating.

If you crimp correctly there should be no difference in terms of chambering and finished cartridge dimensions.
 
Yeah, the Hornady Seater crimps, but it ROLL crimps (at least my new .45 ACP dies do). For simplicity, I would certainly invest in a Hornady Taper Crimp die for station 5... I was able to find them at my local Sportsman's Warehouse for 10.00 apiece ... they're a bit more from Grafs and Midway. Using that die made my reloads work perfectly.
 
I'm just having a hard time believing any die maker sells you a roll-crimp die in a set of straight-wall pistol caliber dies!

Most seating dies for all straight pistol calibers indeed come with a taper-crimp seating die.

But if screwed in far enough, will over-crimp the taper until the case hits the end of the die chamber.
Then it rolls over the end of the case where the die steps down.

But that is not a taper crimp, or a roll crimp.
It is a mistake setting the die.

rcmodel
 
You might want to look at the Lee Factory Crimp die. My RCBS 9mm seating die also applies a taper crimp, but I backed out the crimp shoulder and use it only to seat. I run them through the Lee FC as a fourth step. I like doing it separately, seems to yield more consistent rounds.
 
Taper crimp this bullet. I've loaded 10K rounds of it for 8 different handguns in the past 2 years and they all go boom. My taper crimp die is on the last station on my RCBS Pro 2000.
 
In fact I often have to support the bullet to ensure it goes into the seating die without tipping.
Click to expand...

Nothing wrong with that. As long as the case does not shave lead when you seat the bullet, the bell is just fine. In my opinion, many reloaders over bell the case; I see no sense in over working the brass at the case mouth by bending it back and fourth.

I usually bell only a few thousands of an inch and generally do have to support the bullet as it goes into the die. The die will properly align the bullet with the case mouth as the cartridge moves up into the seating die.

FWIW, I seat and crimp in two separate steps. To use your seating die as a crimper only, just run the seating stem back far enough so it does not touch the bullet. I do, however, use a single stage press, so the two separate operations are easy.
 
I have a hard time, too, believing that a die company of any renown would put a roll crimp in a die that they know will be used on a case that head spaces on the mouth. All good dies are taper crimp. Even my Lee .45 ACP and 9mm X 19 dies...
 
But that is not a taper crimp, or a roll crimp.
It is a mistake setting the die.
Click to expand...
Yep.
I have a hard time, too, believing that a die company of any renown would put a roll crimp in a die that they know will be used on a case that head spaces on the mouth.
Click to expand...
Yep again.

I like to crimp in a seperate operation from seating. It's easier to adjust and does, I think, a better job.

Your answer is no, you don't need a seperate taper crimp die. Your die, if adjusted properly, will seat and taper crimp properly.
 
Hornady offers 26 Pistol Straight Wall Die Sets, and they are all roll crimp (I will not list them as you can view them on Hornady’s web site). Only a few of these cartridges, which are used primarily in semi-autos, require a taper crimp. There is only a need to manufacture 8 different taper crimp dies (single die, not a set of dies): 38cal-9mm; 40S&W-10mm; 400CorBon; 45ACP; 454Casul; 460S&W; 475Linebaugh; and 500S&W.

I think that making the taper dies separately is more of an economic manufacturing decision by Hornady rather than a marketing ploy. And my personal opinion is that is was not their wisest decision.
 
Well, supplying a roll-crimp die in a .45 ACP die set certainly isn't a wise decision.

In fact, it is just plain stupid!

The only chance it would ever be the right crimping die would be if you were reloading .45 Auto-Rim, or .45 ACP for use in moon-clips in a revolver. And what percentage of .45 ACP dies are bought for that?

rcmodel
 
rcmodel: not really. because you can taper crimp quite nicely with the roll crimp die, if you do not turn it down to far. In addition, there are lots of shooters using 45ACP in revolvers with half-moon clips that require the roll crimp.
 
Shoney is correct on almost all counts thus far... I own several New Dimension (Hornady) Pistol die sets, and they ALL (yes all, including my .45 ACP) do a roll crimp... this is not a result of die misadjustment, etc, it is how they are made. I suppose he is right, that the reason they have a roll crimp is if you're gonna use 'em in a revolver... anyhow, with Hornady's semi-auto caliber dies, do yourself a favor, don't fight it, just get the taper crimp die. Why do you think there's a space for it in the Hornady die box? Yeah, I smacked myself in the forehead when I opened the original die set box after I bought the taper crimp die, and lo, there is a space for it at the top of the original die set's box. The other makers may differ (and probably do), but I kind of like crimping these in a separate step.
 
Last edited:
Revolvers?
That's what I just said.

But how many folks buy .45 ACP dies to reload for revolvers as compared to auto's?

There is no way a single die can do both a proper taper crimp, as well as a proper roll-crimp.

Definition for "roll crimp": A roll crimp is the bending or rolling the mouth of a case into the crimp groove or cannelure of the bullet without reducing the case diameter.

Definition for "taper crimp": A taper crimp has the case pressed into the bullet body without bending the case mouth. Most commonly used on cartridges intended for use in auto-loading firearms.

rcmodel
 
rcmodel... I totally agree with you on that last point (if you think I didn't)... I was just stating that for the posters that disbelieve that the Hornady (in my case, the .45ACP in particular) straight wall, semi-auto caliber pistol die sets come with roll crimp in the seater die... I can't imagine a way to make them taper crimp (yes, I tried everything under the sun to make it work... it's not a matter of die adjustment for those that think so) ... so I gave in an got the taper crimp die... and problem was solved. I guess I maybe should have said I didn't agree with Shoney's assertion that you could make (at least mine, maybe it's defective :) ) this Hornady .45ACP seater die do a taper crimp...
 
Lots to read and absorb. Thanks all! I'll experiment with the seating/crimping die I have, but first I'll increase the expansion amount just a little bit.
 
Aah...Fellas...I called Lee about a year ago and they told me that their die sets for semi-auto like .45 ACP are taper crimp seating dies...
 
Right, but what about Hornady?

Sounds like they are the ones making the funny dies for autoloaders!

rcmodel
 
Knucklehead2,

You're correct, the link you posted says it's a taper crimp. But the Midway link for the set I have says "Seating Die with Roll Crimp (with floating bullet seater alignment sleeve and steel seating stem)".

So it would appear that they do offer two types of bullet seating dies. And it appears that Hornady's Taper Crimp Die does not seat bullets.
 
If Hornady auto die sets come with a roll crimp, they have changed since I have bought a set, and I would not buy another if it is so, unless I was already planning on buying a separate crimp die, which many folks don't care to do.

Stupid, like rcmodel said.
 
Really bizarre that they would supply a roll crimp type die for a .40, which I'm guessing is used in revolvers maybe 0.1% of the time. Guess another reason to be glad I've been buying Lee dies.
 
Gary, A solution may be to call Hornady and ask them to send you a new sleeve. Probably will not charge you if you volunteer to send the roll crimp sleeve back. I have a separate Hornady crimp die but I still use the seat/crimp it does a good job. Good Luck.
 
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