Taper Crimp Not Even Needed?

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Not trying to confuse the issue here but, I don't think my Dillon seating die crimps,

Perhaps not. I was looking at the Dillon dies on their site, and it says they have a separate crimper. What I don't understand is what die they are using for inside neck expanding and belling? Usually a 3 die set consists of a sizing die, an expanding die, (sometimes made as a powder through die) and a seating/crimping die.

Check out their site

So in the three die set if there is a separate crimp die, what are they using for expanding and belling?
 
Some comments without recommendation.

Progressive loaders make it easy to crimp in a separate step.

Back in my single stage days, I found that trying to tinker my RCBS seating die with roll crimp shoulder to just knock down the flare on .45 ACP was so tedious that I just did it separately anyhow. The combination of mixed brass and coarse adjustment by the die body threads was just beyond me.
I started out by bumping the loaded round into the mouth of the sizing die until I could buy a taper crimp die.

RCBS claims that their current seating die with simultaneous taper crimp will deliver better accuracy than separate steps. Which must mean that everybody else in the business is wrong.

I seldom buy factory loads except for defense hollowpoints but came by some Black Hills off a prize table. The jacketed bullets have straight case mouths or an imperceptable taper crimp. The lead SWCs have a HARD taper crimp, about .468" and are loaded a bit shorter than the Internet Standard of 1.2500". The one I saved for reference is 1.243".
They feed well and shoot accurately. I think I will be making some adjustments the next time I load SWCs.


James:
Dillon machines expand/flare with the "powder funnel" in the "powder die". The "powder funnel" comes with the press caliber conversion along with shellplate and locator buttons. So there is no need for an expander die and plug. The "powder die" is sold separately. One comes with the press but they are not expensive and it is usual to buy one for each caliber to save on setup time.
Redding makes "professional" die sets without expander for use on Dillons. Dillon recommends the brand for calibers they don't make.
 
Bullet hold, I am the fan of bullet hold, I want all the bullet hold I can get.

Too much crimp? I can not get too much crimp. “PROBLEM!” Seating and crimping at the same time, a technique Dillon takes the time to explain why they think seating and crimping on the same station is a bad habit. I explained to them I was not starting over by purchasing all new dies and the 550B was one station short of 5, and again, I use the powder lock out die, then, we decided I could use my dies in their press and I could manage the crimp and seating of bullets and cases in the same manner that has always worked for me in the past.

Too much crimp loosens the bullet?? Crimping as described by Lyman in the old days instructed reloaders crimping bottle neck cases was a bad habit, even then cases length had to be the same length, there was no plus and or minus, the rational for not crimping had to do with the crimp of the case neck turned into the bullet when the crimp began, then they reminded the reloader the bullet was moving down as in being seated and that was a conflict, because? while the bullet was being seated and moving down the case neck was locking onto the bullet, Without case body/neck/shoulder support the locked down bullet bulged the neck below the crimp AND! if the reloader insisted on contusing to seat the bullet the ‘locked on bullet to the neck’ would crush the case and cause the shoulder to bulge etc., etc.. And that is the reason a reloader may not be betting the results they wanted.

Too much crimp, R. Lee’s book on modern reloading claims there is no such think as too much crimp, in the past bullets have been locked to the case with different methods, some were spiked, no one ever claimed the case had too much bullet hold, EXCEPT!!!!!!!! THOSE COLD WELD WELDED CASES TO THE BULLET in Aberdeen, MD, then we have to go back to the neck expanding before the bullet (lagging) gets started ‘time is a factor’. I will say WELDED BULLETS TO THE CASE could be a problem if the chamber had a tight neck.

Vtail, the OP, has decided the crimp was not necessary and uses “appears to...” several times. Fantastic, simply fantastic. ME? I crimp, I have 45 ACPs that like new ammo, off the shelf, new, factory never fired ammo. That is expensive and I am a reloader. To shoot reloads I am forced to make my 45 ACPs think they are getting new, factory over the counter ammo. After loading my 45 ACP ammo I make a second run through the press, I have found my 45s do not like cases that look like they swallowed a bullet so I use the carbide sizer die to remove the bulge, only the bulge, after removing the bulge my 45 ammo look factory loaded, enough so my pistols can not tell the difference.

In a conversation with a very disciplined reloader he suggested he could solve the problem, he loaded about 200 rounds and met me at the range, we started, same ol’ thing, my 45s did not like his ammo because his ammo looked like his cases swallowed the bullets, his cases had ‘bullet lines’ around the case. He had 5 other 45 shooters shooting/testing his ammo. I instructed him to ‘stay there’ while I returned home to remove the bulges (bullet lines). I returned to the range, loaded his ammo and without hesitation his ammo worked flawlessly.

And it was my fault, as in “Why don’t you fix it?” He looks at the targets and suggest applying the ‘LEAVER POLICY’ Leaver the way you founder.

F, Guffey
 
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No, not necessarily. Hornady 40S&W seating dies incorporate a Roll crimp.
Taper crimp dies are sold separately.

Hornady sells .40S&W as a set with a seating die that incorporates either a Taper OR a Roll crimp. You buy the set that has the type of crimp that you want.

I personally have the Taper crimp set and my seating die applies a taper crimp just like any other 3-die pistol set.

Roll crimp version:
http://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/product/productId/6783

Taper crimp version:
http://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/product/productId/23046
 
As a matter of fact the Redding Comp Seating die does not remove the crimp either
Yep, they do not crimp.

Most standard seating dies have the appropriate crimp ledge machined in.

Hornady is putting a 45ish degree crimp ledge in all its sleeves these days. They roll crimp OK, but will do make a proper taper crimp. Dumb. (Cost/corner cutting) You need a separate crimp die with the Hornady seaters for auto calibers.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=6354182&postcount=7
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One last perspective regarding crimping rimless cartridges when seating jacketed bullets.

I stopped crimping my jacketed rimless reloads many years ago when I discovered that a nice even chamfer of the inside of the case mouth would allow for a straight and no shaving seat. In addition to time saved by not having to dink around with adjusting for a taper crimp, or experiencing over / under crimping due to varied case lengths, unless any of you are anal about keeping your ACP and other same type brass trimmed to matching lengths, don't bell, don't crimp, just a quick chamfer, seat em, and shoot em. Bullet set back, I've never experienced that. Over crimping, over belling, don't know what that looks likes on an ACP (rimless) case.

I can probably count on one hand the number of reloaders that do it like I do, BTW, all individuals who I have shared this neat little trick with. But those who experience on going issues with crimping rimless cartridges, a constant and on going topic here, and a never ending discussion at the range as well.

GS
 
Proper belling and proper crimping are so easy a caveman could do it.

Yep, for jacketed bullets one can get away with no belling in auto pistol calibers. I don't do it that way, but one can. :)
 
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