150 gr gas check bullets in 30-30 Win 94 load wanted

[Bullseye]

I have 100 cases to load. I want to use up these bullets.
They are .309 gas checked flat point powder coated and of good quality. No 2 alloy.

The powders I have on hand are:

Trail Boss
Unique
Leverevolution

I also have limited amounts of
IMR 4198
IMR 4350
Benchmark
Varget

I only want to use these for 50 to 100 yd shots of course.
Just for shooting in a 1940's Winchester 94 30-30 Win.
I sure would not mind using up the Trail Boss or Leverevolution.
These are coated so I don't think leading would be an issue.
Does anyone have a load for these? See attachment photo.
Thank you!

 

[Bullseye]

I made up 20 cartridges with IMR 4198.

 

[Scooter22]

I've been using 20.0 grn of IMR-4198 with a Lee 150 grn FP cast from WWs. Shoots great in 2 Marlins with Microgroove and 2 Win M94s. One my gramps 1927 model and a "80s" AE 16" Trapper. I also have used IMR-4895. Don't remember that charge off hand. But both loads are accurate and shoot close to impact of full power jacketed loads out to 75yds. Might have to go up one notch on the rear sight step for 100yds. Oh I use a double coat Lee"lox" for lube. Fill me in on the powder coating.

 

[mr wack]

I know your bullets aren't Lee's but here's Lymans 4th ed loads for 150 gn fngc ..

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[Bullseye]

I'm pretty confident in this load I made up.
Thanks you guys for the responses. With the gas checks and coating, I like my guess-timated velocity of around 1800 fps.
Looks like Trail Boss and Unique are a little slow for gas checks.
I think I read someplace I want to go at least 1500 fps using them. I certainly could be wrong.
It may be awhile til I get to shoot these. I am waiting on inheriting the carbine lever gun.
Recently I got the dies and 104 good cases for an awesome price and I had nothing else to load today.

 

[FROGO207]

The first picture looks like the necks are not crimped. You should solidly crimp ammo for tube fed magazine firearms to keep the bullets from sliding into the brass under recoil. If you crimped them ignore me.

 

[SARuger]

It seems the bullets aren't seated to the crimp groove either. But what do I know, I'm new to this! I have the 165g MBC coated and I seated them to the groove and clamped. I'm using IMR 4227 and a very light, at minimum load to keep velocity around 1600.

 

[Bullseye]

I thought about crimping them at the next groove toward the tip but they are light to moderately crimped on the bullet just ahead of the second groove. Maybe I should send the down to the last groove but the OAL called for that 2.540 in my Lymans #49 manual.
Looking at Mr wack's image I could probably have taken them down to 2.435 which is probably closer to the edge of the last groove. I'll know if they don't chamber won't I?

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I thought about crimping them at the next groove toward the tip but they are light to moderately crimped on the bullet just ahead of the second groove. Maybe I should send the down to the last groove but the OAL called for that 2.540 in my Lymans #49 manual.
Looking at Mr wack's image I could probably have taken them down to 2.435 which is probably closer to the edge of the last groove. I'll know if they don't chamber won't I?

The OAL listed in a manual is useless to you other than for reference. Lead bullets should be crimped into the manufacturer supplied crimp groove. That is the correct position for that bullet. Can you post a picture to show us the bullet? The forward groove seems to be the crimp groove.

 

[Bullseye]

I crimped them before you posted ArchAngelCD and sized them to OAL 2.468 in the last groove.
There's a thumbnail in post 1 of the bullets and the images I showed in post 2 show the groove.
Here's what they look like now.
Not the prettiest loads I ever made but I would bet fine to shoot.

 

[ants]

Note about old lever guns and long OAL: The length dimension is not just for fit in chamber. Two more vital functions:
The lifter is the action piece that lifts the cartridge from magazine level to chamber level, cartridge too long and it won't get lifted.
And then try to withdraw and eject from chamber, the bolt only goes back so far and if the bullet nose doesn't clear the chamber you cannot eject.

Just me: I wouldn't load 20 rounds until I get the gun to check it out. These will probably work fine for you. They look good.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Now for the range report!

 

[mr wack]

ArchAngelCD is right , the AOL listed is what works well in the universal receiver they used for testing.
Usually I will make up a dummy round ,,loosely fitted bullet pushed slightly in the neck of the case and then chamber it ( no powder , primer of course) then carefully remove it from the chamber and give it a measure, with that measurement i'll deduct a couple of thou and call it good to go .
In a lever rifle I would taper crimp to get a good hold of that piece of lead.
Everybody has a routine and this is mine,,, yours may be different and that's what makes rolling your own fun...

 

[GooseGestapo]

I bet they won't shoot worth a flip. They appear to have aluminum gas checks and no bullet lube. I'd personally, lube them with Lee liquid Alox at the very least. And then, I'd only load them with 7.5-10.0gr of Unique.

I can't imagine a marginally undersized bullet without lube being anything besides trouble in the making. (I.e.: horrible leading and accuracy).

I cast/load the same alloy, but size to .311", and lube with SPG.
I use up to 30.0gr of Reloader15, with splendid accuracy.

Ok; looked further and saw they are powder coated.

I'll venture you'll see better accuracy with a slower burning powder. My favorite are IMR3031, IMR4064, IMR4895, Varget, but mostly BLC2 and RL15. The latter two make up for 90% of my loading with cast bullets.

 

[mr wack]

powder coated right,?
No lube required if they are,

 

[ants]

Coated bullets are getting pretty big. Many users don't get lead deposits
even without conventional lube. That's the point for properly coated bullets.
Go to castboolits.gunloads.com and see what they are experiencing real-world
with coated bullets in 30-30 and other rifle cartridges.

The OP will test his bullets when he gets the gun. Maybe Goose is right, maybe not, he'll see for himself.

 

[Bullseye]

It will be awhile til I get to shoot these. I don't have the 30-30 ..... yet.

 

[stubbicatt]

sigsmoker, I think your understanding about gas checked bullets is maybe a little bit of a misunderstanding. It isn't that you should drive them over 1500 fps because they are gas checked, it is rather that plain based bullets *typically* don't like to be driven over 1500 fps. In essence the presence of the gas check is not a factor that requires greater velocity, it enables greater velocity than a similar plain based bullet, but nothing about the gas check disturbs lower velocities.

FWIW, if you are going to shoot cast bullets and find that they meet your performance expectations, there are some certain powders that seem to work really well with cast bullets, which you may wish to acquire and lay in for a possible cold day. Among the powders which I use, and which are widely used with cast bullets are: IMR4227, IMR SR4759 (now discontinued), AA5744, Unique, Alliant 2400, and oddly enough H4895, which can be downloaded quite a bit.

Even though you may find that you can really drive your bullets fast, you may also find that lower velocity loads are more accurate. Should you wish to explore the sub 2000 fps realm, you might study up on those traditional cast bullet powders. While not the same as your bullet choice, using a traditional #2 alloy (approximately) and the RCBS 180 grain bullet, 15 grains of IMR 4227 in my 30-30 gets me into an inch pretty reliably at 100 yards (off sandbags).

Enjoy your new lever rifle when it comes.

 

[mr wack]

+1 for 4759 for use with cast loads, shame it's been discontinued AGAIN I stocked up a bit,, didn't hoard,, but I'm down to about 4lb ,,,, then it's gone forever,,,,,,,, OR,,,,,,, is it?.

 

[GooseGestapo]

15.0 4227 is a light load. ~1,350-1,450fps. Will work with even plain base bullets.
Lyman starts with a gaschecked bullet at 16.5gr.

I use cast bullets as opposed to jacketed in the .30/30 and .35Rem. I too shoot light loads, but dislike having to resight so tend to use a "standard" load. It doesn't take a $.$$ bullet to kill deer. A 5cent cast bullet kills them just as dead, and often with the same powder and charge in a .30/30 or .35.
Do go to castboolit.com Bullet casters territory!

And yeah, I'm powder coating too, but it's not the end all to end all. Just another tool in the box.

 

[Bullseye]

ArchAngel:

Now for the range report!

I'm sorry I never updated this. These shot great. Iron sites 50 yds and 2 inch groups to the left and high but no problem. At 100 yds they should be right on since I did move the rear site to compensate when I got home.

Looking thru, I don't even see the load I used.
It was 150 gr powder coated gas checked flat points. .309 diam.
21.0 gr IMR 4198