150 grain M80 Copy/Imitation

[DMW1116]

I plan to try a copy of the Winchester 150 grain M80 White Box FMJ ammo. I have a few boxes from various LGS, and it shoots really well in my rifle (PSA PA-10). I have an ample supply of Winchester LRP, Shooters World AR Plus, and 150 grain Hornady FMJ projectiles.

According to the SW load data, AR Plus is intended to push 147-150 grain bullets near the same velocity as the M80 surplus rounds. Who am I to argue? Wikipedia gives a velocity of 2800 fps from a 22" barrel for M80. I figure this is from an M1A? My barrel is 20" so it should be pretty close. The maximum velocity from Shooters World is 2924 fps with a maximum charge of 42.7 grains. I don't want to push that hard, so I think I'll start a little above minimum at 35.8 and work up to about 39 grains. This will be close, somewhere near 2750 fps if my estimation skills are up to the task. Anywhere between 2700 and 2800 is fine for my purposes.

I already tried a sample single point load at 35.4 grains, and it shot and functioned well. I'm well below max, but I wanted a sanity check. Anyone see anything dangerous about my plan? I hope I can find a good load without having to resort to IMR 4064. It shot tighter than AR Plus and TAC when trying some sample loads, and generally shoots anything vaguely bullet shaped well from my rifle. It's just too expensive for my uses.

 

[Charlie98]

I have an M80EQ load for my 16" M1a... with the understanding that I won't be getting the velocities M80 achieves in a 22" M1a, etc. FWIW, gen-u-wine M80 surplus gives me 2650fps almost universally in my Socom, and my previous M80EQ load does about 2500fps... that is, 43.5grn IMR4895 under any 145-150grn FMJ bullet. My current workup is 41.5grn IMR3031... faster powder for the shorter barrel.. and I'm getting 2550fps out of that, and 43.9grn TAC for 2600fps. I understand I could push all of those loads further and likely match M80 without issues, but why? It's a blasting load, it functions 100%, it's accurate...

I don't see anything wrong with your approach. I don't know the burn rate relationship to other like powders... like TAC, IMR4064... but with your stated charge weights, I would say it's a very fast powder, more akin to IMR3031 and H335 than TAC or certainly IMR4064. Just my observation. I would be very careful approaching max data with that in the .308, even with 150grn bullets.

I hope I can find a good load without having to resort to IMR 4064. It shot tighter than AR Plus and TAC when trying some sample loads

I'm assuming that's a typo?


AR Plus is in the QuickLoad catalogue, if you want me to run some numbers, PM me and I'll whip some generic numbers up.

 

[DMW1116]

Not a typo, but unexpected all the same. It is in the same burn rate as IMR 3031 and H335 according to SW data and burn chart. I’m not going near the maximum if I can help it. That’s 2900 fps. If I can break 2700 I’ll be thrilled. I’ll PM later after work.

 

[Charlie98]

Not a typo, but unexpected all the same.

Ah... I see it now... you were talking about IMR4064. Duh.

IMR4064 is pretty hard to beat in the .308, and particularly with a longer barrel... think 20" and longer. It's the best powder I've found for my 24" Savage bolt gun, although TAC is giving it a run for it's money.

Interestingly, I test drove some 168grn SMK loads in the 16" Socom this weekend, with both IMR4064 and TAC... wasn't really happy with the results. I didn't have my tripod, so I couldn't run them over the chrono, so I'll have to work up another batch and shoot it at Christmas.

If I can break 2700 I’ll be thrilled.

I think that would be a very realistic goal...

 

[DMW1116]

I haven’t found the same results as others seem to get from TAC. It’s a good 55 grain 223 powder and I have a varmint 223 load with a 55 grain soft point. It didn’t impress me in 308 with FMJ bullets but I didn’t try very hard either.

 

[IALoder]

PPU M80 ran right at 2750fps in my 20" LR-308, cycled great, and was surprisingly accurate for ball ammo. I was able to match velocity and got very close to accuracy with AR Plus and TAC. I wanna say AR Plus hit the velocity goal at ~40gr. I can't seem to find it in my Chrono app, but I should have it written down at home, so I can let you know for sure. Only thing I didn't like was that the case fill wasn't very good.

 

[DMW1116]

I didn’t have good luck with the PPU stuff. It’s ok but just won’t shoot like the Winchester version.

I doubt I’ll push to 40 grains unless I just miss a node. I intend to keep it as easy shooting as I can.

 

[DMW1116]

I forget what it is, but I did some work with AR Plus and a 168 grain Amax. It was a nice load and pleasant to shoot, about in the middle third of the load range. I think it will work with the 150 grain bullets too.

 

[Charlie98]

PPU M80 ran right at 2750fps in my 20" LR-308, cycled great, and was surprisingly accurate for ball ammo.

Same same with my M1a... it became the basis for my factory .308 ammo stash. The nice thing about the Prvi is... you get excellent brass from it, too. I know there is some variance between lots, and 'brands' of Prvi (blue box vs white box...) but I've had very good luck with it; it shot at least as well as the different flavors of surplus M80, which I'm just about out of.

 

[IALoder]

I didn’t have good luck with the PPU stuff. It’s ok but just won’t shoot like the Winchester version.

I doubt I’ll push to 40 grains unless I just miss a node. I intend to keep it as easy shooting as I can.

Found my info, 41.0 gr AR Plus with a 150 Hornady FMJ was 2760 fps, similar accuracy to most of the m80's I tried. I'd guess 39.0gr would be around 2600-2650fps out of a 20", and be a nice soft shooting load.

 

[Charlie98]

Found my info, 41.0 gr AR Plus with a 150 Hornady FMJ was 2760 fps

I ran some numbers on QuickLoad, the QL model took nearly 45grn of AR+ to get to 2750fps! The OP and I were talking about it, and decided it wasn't a valid result.

 

[DMW1116]

Could there be that much difference from one rifle to another?

 

[Kaldor]

M80 ball is pretty easy to clone at 2800 fps from a 20" barrel. I'm not terribly worried about FMJ accuracy, but I've tested TAC, 2520, CFE223, 2230, and all have been able to achieve 2800 fps with reasonable 1.5" accuracy. I have some Staball Match I want to try next. I like using ball powders so I can load them on a progressive more easily and ball powders tend to be cheaper and more available.

 

[Charlie98]

but I've tested TAC,

That's the M80EQ load I'm working on now, along with IMR3031. They are 2 pretty different powders, and straddle my previous IMR4895 load in burn rate, but they seem to be doing well. I like TAC because it is much cheaper, and, as you mention, it flows well in a progressive. It also seems to work well enough with the 168's, even when compared to IMR4064.

Could there be that much difference from one rifle to another?

I think IALoader's data mirrors your projections, based on the SW data. I'm not sure why the QL model is so out of whack on this one. I've done some load modeling for AJC, and some of the numbers were absolutely spot on.