Been debating on a new woodchuck/groundhog rifle for areas too populated for 223rem. I found a used savage 93 17hmr bull barrel with 5 mags for $300. Just looking for a 150yard rifle that wont send them running back to a hole like 22lr does. Whats your experience with these?
17hmr vs 22mag
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Larry in wyoming
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I shot a lot of groundhogs with a 22mag and federal 50gr hollow point. It does a great job. I felt it was at its best from 125yds and in. 150 wouldn't worry me any. The 17hmr will shoot flatter and most folks report that it offers better accuracy. I never used one myself. Consider a 22 hornet.
CoalCrackerAl
Member
I have a 93 bull barrel 17hmr. It's a great shooter. I can hit clays set up out to 200 yards. I don't see any issues with hitting chucks out to 150 yards. I run a decent scope on mine. I also have a Ruger American too in 17 HMR. Same scope. https://www.burrisoptics.com/riflescopes/fullfield-iv-6-24x50mm
Out to 150 yards, terminal effect on game will be pretty close (depending on projectile used).
That said the 17 HMR stomps all over the 22 magnum with respect to accuracy.
If gilt edged accuracy is part if your criteria reference shooting chucks the 17 HMR is the way to go.
Yeah accuracy is king. I have no use for a 2” gun at 100yards cause from what i am seeing thats a 22mag.
Larry in wyoming
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The 22 mag gets a bad rap in the accuracy dept. My old savage mdl 65m. Would print 1 inch groups at 100yds with those federal 50 grain bullets. I think most of the 22mags problem was ammo related. Not the cartridge or the gun. Today's ammo is just better. As is the rifles. But, a 17hmr isn't a wrong choice
earlthegoat2
Member
17 HMR for accuracy and 22 Mag for faster killing ability. Ive had both and kept the 22 Mag because it is better all around but for chuck sized game near 100 yds they will be a wash.
I agree the 22 Mag's accuracy woes are two fold one is it's like the LR in that what a particular gun likes is an enigma and second there is a water seeks it's own level thing going on where consumers have been told to expect mediocre accuracy and ammo makers take advantage of this and most ammo will shoot accordingly.
My Ruger American shoots the Remington 33gr accu tips into an inch at 100 but put the Hornady 30gr in it and it shoots an inch plus at 25.
Idk that if I didn't already have a bunch of 22 mag ammo, that I wouldn't have got a 17 instead.
.308 Norma
Member
I don't even have a 22 Mag rifle anymore, so I can't make a comparison between a 22 Mag rifle and the 17 HMR I have standing in the corner by the back door. I know this though - my 17 HMR literally explodes starlings in the currant bushes 20 to 25 yards from our rear deck.
On the other hand, starlings in the apple tree 90 or 100 yards from our rear deck are relatively safe from me and my 17 HMR if the wind's blowing - which is almost a constant here in SE Idaho.
On the other hand, starlings in the apple tree 90 or 100 yards from our rear deck are relatively safe from me and my 17 HMR if the wind's blowing - which is almost a constant here in SE Idaho.
Coyote3855
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I like my .17 HMR for ground squirrels. The velocity seems to ensure that those little bullets don't ricochet.
firedawg60
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I have been pleased with a WMR and CCI 40 grain CCI soft points on groundhogs, but I haven't shot any past 100 yds. I think it would have better terminal ballistics and less wind deflection than a HMR.
bassjam
Member
I'd personally go the 17hmr route for groundhogs. It shoots flatter and will be devastating on groundhogs at 150 yards with good shot placement, and will almost certainly be more accurate.
And I love my 883 Marlin in .22 mag, but I had to shoot around 15 different types of ammo to find 3 that it liked. The ones it didn't like, particularly anything in 30 gr, it scattered. 2" groups at 50 yards, sometimes larger. I've got a buddy who shot his cz 452 with me while we did this, his was also picky, although slightly less so, and preferred 30 gr projectiles. Still, both of ours were 1-1.5MOA guns with ammo they liked. Another buddy has a savage 93 in .17hmr, and his seems to shoot just about everything 0.5 MOA.
And I love my 883 Marlin in .22 mag, but I had to shoot around 15 different types of ammo to find 3 that it liked. The ones it didn't like, particularly anything in 30 gr, it scattered. 2" groups at 50 yards, sometimes larger. I've got a buddy who shot his cz 452 with me while we did this, his was also picky, although slightly less so, and preferred 30 gr projectiles. Still, both of ours were 1-1.5MOA guns with ammo they liked. Another buddy has a savage 93 in .17hmr, and his seems to shoot just about everything 0.5 MOA.
CoalCrackerAl
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I took this chuck with my Mossberg 22lr at 112 yards.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
IMHO, the .22Mag has more terminal effect and works better on larger varmints but the .17 has more range.
I've used both quite a bit. Killed several ground hogs over the last year with my Bergara B14 .22Mag. If you want an accurate .22Mag, there it is.
I've used both quite a bit. Killed several ground hogs over the last year with my Bergara B14 .22Mag. If you want an accurate .22Mag, there it is.
I set up twin Savages, one a 17, other a 22 WMR. Regardless of ammo, the 17 was routinely shooting groups half the size of the 22. That said, I picked up a Ruger 77 in 22 mag. It almost matched the Savage 17.
If I was going to shoot chucks and could count on head shots, the 17.
Since then I've been loading 223 ammo to replicate 22lr, WMR, and hornet.
Contender carbine is my versatile choice now.
If I was going to shoot chucks and could count on head shots, the 17.
Since then I've been loading 223 ammo to replicate 22lr, WMR, and hornet.
Contender carbine is my versatile choice now.
CoalCrackerAl
Member
I find .223 55 grain with 9 grains of red dot to be accurate.
WisBorn
Contributing Member
I don't doubt that you can't hit chucks out to 150 yards with the 17 hmr. But does it have enough power to kill a chuck ethically at that distance? I have only shot a 17 a few times and only at paper and clays.
CoalCrackerAl
Member
I have not killed anything with mine. That is a good question. I have read about guys shooting parrie dogs at longer distance with the 17 HMR. I don't know how they are in size vs a ground hog.
Larry in wyoming
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Prarie dogs are about 1/3 to 1/4 the size of a decent groundhog.
I once wrote that if groundhogs were the size of deer, we'd hunt them with a 458 win mag. They are tough, densely muscled critters with a tenacity to life. They can take a fair amount of killing. The 17hmr will do it but shot placement is super critical. Thankfully the 17 is supposed to be super accurate. Those light fast bullets would tend to lack penetration. The 22mag with heavier, more solid bullets will penetrate a chucks dense shoulder better. The 22mag can be accurate enough as well.
I have plenty of chuck experience on groundhogs with the 22mag and only anecdotal experience with the 17. They both will work but the 22mag has a broader range of conditions where it's optimal as opposed to what I've HEARD about the 17.
I once wrote that if groundhogs were the size of deer, we'd hunt them with a 458 win mag. They are tough, densely muscled critters with a tenacity to life. They can take a fair amount of killing. The 17hmr will do it but shot placement is super critical. Thankfully the 17 is supposed to be super accurate. Those light fast bullets would tend to lack penetration. The 22mag with heavier, more solid bullets will penetrate a chucks dense shoulder better. The 22mag can be accurate enough as well.
I have plenty of chuck experience on groundhogs with the 22mag and only anecdotal experience with the 17. They both will work but the 22mag has a broader range of conditions where it's optimal as opposed to what I've HEARD about the 17.
Larry in wyoming
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I used my 223 with reduced loads quite a bit and they filled that niche pretty well. My personal problem with that approach is that I just couldn't stand leaving that much potential on the table. I don't generally run my "stuff" to the maximum; but I like to run it to the optimum.
I shot the same groundhog three weeks in a row. 1st, 22 long rifle, moved as I shot and hit it in the leg. Into the soybeans. Second week I was working out back and saw him coming in to his den under my garden shed. 38 hbwc out of my 4” Python. Again, too far back. Third week, fifteen yards, 12 ga, OO buck, died.
Another time I’m tilling my garden and see one standing up outside the den under the shed. Two rounds with my 625 and 185 hp. 45acp. DRT I thought. Got done tilling and went to pick up the carcass. Big area of bloody dirt and blood trail into the den. I filled in the tunnel. Most went down easily with headshots. I’ve killed probably fifty with handguns and strongly recommend 22 mag or better in the head. They can be
tough. When I tore down the shed I found several skulls underneath.
Another time I’m tilling my garden and see one standing up outside the den under the shed. Two rounds with my 625 and 185 hp. 45acp. DRT I thought. Got done tilling and went to pick up the carcass. Big area of bloody dirt and blood trail into the den. I filled in the tunnel. Most went down easily with headshots. I’ve killed probably fifty with handguns and strongly recommend 22 mag or better in the head. They can be
tough. When I tore down the shed I found several skulls underneath.
CoalCrackerAl
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I run the red dot loads in my axis. Makes an economical range play load. They run around 2000 FPS.
Larry in wyoming
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They worked great on trash pandas and grinners (possums) around the house and chucks in places where I couldn't go full throttle. I used some amount of blue dot. I can't remember the exact load now. Once I got another 223, I set up my NEF handi rifle for the blue dots.
2ndtimer
Member
Never had a .22 magnum rifle, but have shot a few rock chucks out to 300 yards with my .223 bolt gun. I have taken quite a few ground squirrels (or gophers, sage rats, depending on your location) with a .17HMR, and much prefer it to the standard .22 LR or hyper velocity (CCI Stinger Remington Yellow Jacket) .22’s.
With the standard.22’s you get a lot of solid hit crawl offs, where the .17HMR drops them right there. You can even hear the “pop” when you connect. I have had best results with the 17 gr V-Max ammo, the 20 gr loads haven’t been as accurate, in my experience. I watched through my scope when my son nailed one at a lasered 178 yards and actually saw the blood on impact. Not sure it would be my choice for the much larger chucks, but prairie dogs at 150 would be okay.
With the standard.22’s you get a lot of solid hit crawl offs, where the .17HMR drops them right there. You can even hear the “pop” when you connect. I have had best results with the 17 gr V-Max ammo, the 20 gr loads haven’t been as accurate, in my experience. I watched through my scope when my son nailed one at a lasered 178 yards and actually saw the blood on impact. Not sure it would be my choice for the much larger chucks, but prairie dogs at 150 would be okay.
