1851 colt?

[WestKentucky]

I found a bunch of the stuff I need to shoot. Too bad I found it as I packed up my stuff to move. 2 weeks and counting down.

What I found…
CSA stamped leather flap holster bought for my single six 9”. Fits perfect.
Capper from my old inline rifle days.
Hornady .451 balls (2/3 box give or take)
Powder flask I may use… it’s probably junk though. Flasks are cheap enough and I may just make one.
FFFG powder undoubtedly bought on clearance

what I need still
Caps
Lubed felt wads
Loading stand
Time to shoot
A dozen strong young men willing to move me in exchange for good food and meager wages.

 

[drobs]

I recently finished re-watching Deadwood and would like to re-watch Hell on Wheels. However I too remember the brass framed revolvers just killed that series for me. The worst was US Cavalry Soldier using brass framed revolvers!!! Great show but they just absolutely failed on the guns.

 

[WestKentucky]

I recently finished re-watching Deadwood and would like to re-watch Hell on Wheels. However I too remember the brass framed revolvers just killed that series for me. The worst was US Cavalry Soldier using brass framed revolvers!!! Great show but they just absolutely failed on the guns.

My issue with both was the language. I get it, end of the line and frontier cities were where the roughest toughest guys were and it’s where the prostitutes and gamblers go to earn their keep, and it’s a crude place, but it just seemed like the writers were shooting for a goal on profanity. Deadwoood was especially heavy, and hell on wheels wasn’t as bad at first but seemed to increase rather quickly. I can overlook prop mistakes, but I can’t watch those shows with my kids in the house.my 12 yr old kinda gets it at school, but my little ones don’t.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

It looks just like my brass framed 44 cal "1851 Navy". I bought it brand spanky-new in 1968. The Ridgefield NJ address on your barrel is where Navy Arms was headquartered at the time. I borrowed my Dad's car (I was only 18 at the time) and drove to Ridgefield (only about 15 miles from where I lived at the time). I think it cost around $60, but it was a long time ago and my memory is a little bit hazy.

I believe mine was advertised as "Army 60" in the Navy Arms catalog at the time.

No, the Navy was never made in 44 caliber, but I did not know that in 1968.






Around 1959 or so, with the Centennial of the beginning of the Civil War approaching, Val Forgett II worked closely with Aldo Uberti to make a reproduction of the 1851 Navy happen. Forgett assumed that with the approach of the Centennial of the Civil War there would be renewed interest in Cap & Ball revolvers. He was correct, and that was the beginning of the entire replica arms business that we have today, including cartridge models. Forgett already had a business called Service Arms, in 1956 he created Navy Arms, again, naming it after the 1851 Navy Colt.

This is the Uberti trademark on mine. This represents the muzzle of the 1851 Colt, with U for Uberti in the middle. It looks like someone slipped and the stamp bounced when it got whacked, making another slight mark.






I concur, do not use full power loads. My old "Navy" is a wall hanger now, too many 30 grain loads stretched the frame. Nobody was telling us not to use full power loads in 1968.

 

[Augustus44]

The first four thousand or so Navy Arms 1851 style pistols imported didn't have any proof marks or date codes. They just had Navy Arms Co on the top of the barrel and left side of frame. Had G.U. (Gregorelli & Uberti) and Made in Italy on the right barrel flat. They had round barrels and plain cylinders. They were marked with the G.U. until 1963 when Uberti split with Gregorelli and from then on where marked Uberti. Both steel frame and brass. Here is a brass frame 9XX serial number and a steel frame 2,1XX serial number. Both .36 caliber.

 

[.38 Special]

I recently finished re-watching Deadwood and would like to re-watch Hell on Wheels. However I too remember the brass framed revolvers just killed that series for me. The worst was US Cavalry Soldier using brass framed revolvers!!! Great show but they just absolutely failed on the guns.

My understanding is that they took so much flak for that sort of thing during the first season that they really cleaned up their act for the subsequent ones. If you never made it past the first few episodes, it might be worth trying the later ones.

 

[44 Dave]

The first four thousand or so Navy Arms 1851 style pistols imported didn't have any proof marks or date codes. They just had Navy Arms Co on the top of the barrel and left side of frame. Had G.U. (Gregorelli & Uberti) and Made in Italy on the right barrel flat. They had round barrels and plain cylinders. They were marked with the G.U. until 1963 when Uberti split with Gregorelli and from then on where marked Uberti. Both steel frame and brass. Here is a brass frame 9XX serial number and a steel frame 2,1XX serial number. Both .36 caliber.

Here is mine.

 

[eastbank]

after reading about the true west, i think arms like this were used by most farmers-homesteaders-chicken thiefs/.

 

[hawg]

after reading about the true west, i think arms like this were used by most farmers-homesteaders-chicken thiefs/.

And outlaws and lawmen at least after 1870. Most likely a few years later for breech loaders to be commonplace. Farmers and homesteaders likely still used muzzleloaders for a few more years.

 

[Augustus44]

after reading about the true west, i think arms like this were used by most farmers-homesteaders-chicken thiefs/.

A lot of long barrel shotguns were in use in the old west by all kinds of people. Used for hunting and self defense.

 

[Augustus44]

And outlaws and lawmen at least after 1870. Most likely a few years later for breech loaders to be commonplace. Farmers and homesteaders likely still used muzzleloaders for a few more years.

Agree. Cartridge pistols and rifles didn't become common for a long time. They were expensive and cartridges were expensive and hard to get for a while. All the westerns were everyone is carrying 1873 SA's and a Winchester are not accurate. Cap and ball weapons were still used in some parts of the country into the early 1900's.

 

[Jackrabbit1957]

There are places in the east that were still using flintlocks and other muzzleloaders right up into the mid 60s as every day use stuff.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

They were expensive and cartridges were expensive and hard to get for a while. All the westerns were everyone is carrying 1873 SA's and a Winchester are not accurate..

Not so much as you might think.

The Transcontinental Railroad was completed in 1869. By this time there was an extensive rail network in the East, but the Transcontinental route was the only rail line to California, starting in Omaha and crossing the country to San Francisco.






By 1880 the rail network in US had expanded, with several routes reaching into the West.






By 1890 there were more miles of track laid west of the Mississippi. This meant manufactured goods, including ammunition, could be shipped quickly and efficiently to many more destinations all over the country.






Yes, breech loading ammunition was expensive, but most shooters did not fire many rounds in a year, so a box of ammo could go a long way.



You are of course correct about the proliferation of Colt cartridge revolvers and Winchester rifles seen in western movies. Movie studio prop departments had vast supplies of old Colts and Winchester rifles, particularly Winchester Model 1892 rifles. That is why so many were seen in the old movies, even if they were anachronisms for the time period of the movie.

I grew up watching Gunsmoke and Bonanza on TV. Later I realized that Bonanza was supposed to be set in the 1860s.

Here is a publicity shot of the Bonanza actors. Each is holding a cartridge revolver. I'm not sure, but I think Lorne Greene is holding a 1875 Remington.






And don't get me started on Hollywood's practice of removing the wooden fore stock on a Winchester to make it look like a Henry. Here is Dan Blocker with a Winchester Model 1873 with the fore stock removed to make it look like an 1860 Henry.






Little Joe and Hoss are clearly holding 1873 Winchesters with the fore stocks removed. And I think I see the web under the barrel of Pa's 1873 Remington.

 

[hawg]

In the early days Hoss and Ben carried 75 Remingtons. Joe carried a 51 navy. I don't remember what Adam carried. I used to have a screen shot of Adam holding an elaborately engraved 1860 Henry that wasn't an 1873.

 

[eastbank]

yes, these shows and movies drive the purest crazy/. while most viewers can,t tell the difference/.

 

[Malachi Leviticus Blue]

It's entertainment, and especially back in the day, they didn't have big budgets so they had to use what they had.
I'm sure the stitch counters could tear apart their outfits, and that there are examples of not period correct building construction, tack, and other props all over the place.
The guns likely seemed like the least of their worries at the time.

 

[hawg]

It is kind of funny to see a western pleasure saddle on a trail drive.

 

[Pete453]

My issue with both was the language. I get it, end of the line and frontier cities were where the roughest toughest guys were and it’s where the prostitutes and gamblers go to earn their keep, and it’s a crude place, but it just seemed like the writers were shooting for a goal on profanity. Deadwoood was especially heavy, and hell on wheels wasn’t as bad at first but seemed to increase rather quickly. I can overlook prop mistakes, but I can’t watch those shows with my kids in the house.my 12 yr old kinda gets it at school, but my little ones don’t.

My ex bought deadwood for me thinking it was a western. I'm glad I watched it in the bedroom, jeez. I f*#@©n swear like a f*+π¥n truck driver, and work in that environment, and it offended me. Jeez

 

[Malachi Leviticus Blue]

It is kind of funny to see a western pleasure saddle on a trail drive.

At least they usually had an actual horse though right?
It could always be a lot worse

 

[hawg]

Cursing back then wasn't the same as it is today and some of the words we use now had a different meaning back then.

 

[Jackrabbit1957]

It's pretty hard to offend me but Deadwood managed to do so. I get a little fed up with a movie or series that drops an F bomb every other word. I have worked in construction, and as a mechanic for a loooong time so not much bugs me but that one did.

 

[Augustus44]

It's pretty hard to offend me but Deadwood managed to do so. I get a little fed up with a movie or series that drops an F bomb every other word. I have worked in construction, and as a mechanic for a loooong time so not much bugs me but that one did.

I stopped watching deadwood because of the swearing. No reason for all that cussing. I spent a long time in the Army and cussing was normal but deadwood was way over the top.

 

[Pete453]

Deadwood must've had all the swearing as filler, cause it sure didn't have any content. Kinda like a soap opera, really. With a ton of profanity.

 

[whughett]

What makes it an 1851 Navy in a fantasy 44 caliber and not an 1860 Army with a brass frame. ??

 

[whughett]

I never had a brass .44 but I don't see 15 grains causing a squib in one.

The real problem would be in not using a filler or wad and the loading rod not fully seating the ball on top of the powder. Seems airspace is a hazard in bp shooting.