I am having a difficult time deciding on my next black powder pistol. I am leaning towards an engraved 1858 Remington at local store selling for $249.00. It uncles an extra cylinder. Seems like a great deal. Also want a Colt Navy .36 caliber as that is considered the premier Colt. I already have a Colt 2nd model Dragoon; but it shoots high. I want something that shoots point of aim. Any suggestions as to which of the revolvers might be the best pistol for accuracy?
1858 Remington .44 cal vs 1851 colt Navy .36 cal
- Thread starter DavidB2
- Start date
- Status
45 Dragoon
Member
- Joined
- May 18, 2013
- Messages
- 2,781
I'm with Eric!! Fix the Dragoon!!! (Then again, I'm a little biased!)
You can get that Dragoon to shoot just like you want. Both of mine shoot six shots, sub 2" at 40" (off hand). I don't spend near enough time at the range but they are way more accurate than me!. Your Dragoon can be your everything revolver, plinking, target, hunting !!
Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
You can get that Dragoon to shoot just like you want. Both of mine shoot six shots, sub 2" at 40" (off hand). I don't spend near enough time at the range but they are way more accurate than me!. Your Dragoon can be your everything revolver, plinking, target, hunting !!
Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
PainlessWolf
Member
*coughs* LeMat*coughs* ;o) What? I'm just standing here listening to an informed discussion. ;o)
(seriously, get another black powder revolver but fix your Dragoon as well. I _love_ my Walker)
(seriously, get another black powder revolver but fix your Dragoon as well. I _love_ my Walker)
Last edited:
Fingers McGee
Member
Get a pair of Uberti 1861 Navies. Mine shoot to POA out of the box. Piettas dont.
TruthTellers
member
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2015
- Messages
- 1,075
Piettas are sighted in for 75 yards I believe, so they shoot high at closer targets. Just hold lower than where you aim and it'll connect.
As for the TC's question, the Dragoon can be fixed with some work on the groove, but I would suggest getting a smaller gun anyway. Remingtons are more advanced guns than '51 Navy's and the deal the local shop is giving sounds really good. Just get a steel frame is the only thing I recommend.
The Colts were sighted that way also and the replicas copy that feature. I have a pair of Uberti 1861s and they do hit point of aim at 25 yards. On the 1851, installing a dovetailed fore sight is not that hard of a job and many are done.
More advanced? How so?
Kevin
Skinny 1950
Member
I have an 1862 Pocket Police that shoots about 7 inches left and 7 inches high, I try to remember that when shooting it.
Only recently have I been able to tell if it is the gun or me that is out of wack.
I have been shooting for 5 years and have only lately been able to group with any handgun, I don't shoot from a rest and quite often I have a bit of a hangover which can seriously impair my steadiness.
As a side note I am far more addicted to guns than alcohol.
You may want to consider the .36 cal. police, small frame and larger calibre plus I think they are beautiful:
Only recently have I been able to tell if it is the gun or me that is out of wack.
I have been shooting for 5 years and have only lately been able to group with any handgun, I don't shoot from a rest and quite often I have a bit of a hangover which can seriously impair my steadiness.
As a side note I am far more addicted to guns than alcohol.
You may want to consider the .36 cal. police, small frame and larger calibre plus I think they are beautiful:
expat_alaska
Member
Wow, Skinny!
That is a beautiful pistol: blue, case colors, silver-plate, and wood grain/color/fit are just...
sigh...
Signed,
Envious
That is a beautiful pistol: blue, case colors, silver-plate, and wood grain/color/fit are just...
sigh...
Signed,
Envious
Crawdad1
Member
Skinny is that a second generation or third generation Colt?
TruthTellers
member
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2015
- Messages
- 1,075
Advanced in their design. The Remington was not based on any of Sam Colt's designs; it lacked the wedge feature to connect the barrel to the frame and it included a top strap with a real set of sights. The Colt just had a groove filed into a hammer. The cylinders removal was so simple and easy, all that was necessary is pre-loadeded spare cylinders and that reload took all of 20 seconds instead of the minutes it took to reload a Colt.
Even the shooting of the Remington was less prone to issues with caps usually jamming up the action in the Colt's. The soldiers after serving in the war came back with more favorable opinions of Remington revolvers than Colt revolvers.
The manufacturing of the Remington design most certainly cost more and that showed as it was usually $25 more than any of Colt's pistols and must have involved more labor to make.
But the most telltale sign that the Remington was more technologically advanced than the Colt, is if you look at the 1873, what do you see? Top strap... check. Removable base pin... check. Cylinder is removed after base pin is withdrawn... check. Colt took parts of the Remington design and built around it to make the Single Action Army. In fact, after the Remington was created, I don't believe any companies that were working on new designs ever produced any revolvers with open tops. The Remington killed the open top revolver design for good.
That's what I mean when I say more advanced and even today that opinion generally stands firm. Sure, the consensus with Colt's is they're more comfortable to shoot, but in every other category except size and weight, the Remington bests the Colt.
I'm not much of a history buff but I believe it was the other way around. Remington used colts designs and ideas to build their revolver.
colt had a patent in 1836 and his root revolver had a top strap. Also an experimental Pocket Pistol. It was created between 1849 and 1850 at Colt’s Armory in Hartford. It too had a top strap.
When his patent finally expired on February 23, 1857, arms companies such as Remington, Whitney and Manhattan all begin producing revolvers using Colt’s system and design.
colt had a patent in 1836 and his root revolver had a top strap. Also an experimental Pocket Pistol. It was created between 1849 and 1850 at Colt’s Armory in Hartford. It too had a top strap.
When his patent finally expired on February 23, 1857, arms companies such as Remington, Whitney and Manhattan all begin producing revolvers using Colt’s system and design.
TruthTellers
member
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2015
- Messages
- 1,075
If there was a patent of a top strap revolver, I was not aware of it. Either way, Remington is the first gunmaker to put a top strap revolver into mass production.
Billy Shears
Member
- Joined
- Mar 16, 2008
- Messages
- 1,020
Except I'm not aware of any historical accounts of people actually doing that back during the 19th century. And you forgot that the Remington starts to bind up from black powder fouling sooner than the Colt does. And the fouling can gum up the Remington enough that the cylinder pin won't remove easily, which may be part of the reason why there are no historical accounts I am aware of people carrying spare cylinders for them.
Crawdad1
Member
All true but the OP did say he wanted accuracy above all else. In my limited experience as I do not compete with a revolver, the Colt can keep up with a Remington up to a certain range, beyond that its the Remington.
Gaucho Gringo
Member
Remington was building guns(not revolvers)when Colt was still in diapers.
plexreticle
Member
- Joined
- Oct 8, 2006
- Messages
- 1,240
I have both models; a Pietta Remington New Army and a Uberti 1861 Navy.
The New Army has better sights, and is .45 cal.
The 1861 looks better, points better, very light recoil.
Both are surprisingly accurate after working up loads.
Out of the two I own I wouldn't say one is more accurate, however, both Pietta and Pedersoli have made target versions of the Remington New Army that are made specifically for precision shooting.
The New Army has better sights, and is .45 cal.
The 1861 looks better, points better, very light recoil.
Both are surprisingly accurate after working up loads.
Out of the two I own I wouldn't say one is more accurate, however, both Pietta and Pedersoli have made target versions of the Remington New Army that are made specifically for precision shooting.
Billy Shears
Member
- Joined
- Mar 16, 2008
- Messages
- 1,020
And Beretta was building them before the first English settlers landed at Jamestown. What does that have to do with anything.
Crawdad1
Member
I agree there. If he wants precision shooting then the various 'Target' model Remingtons is the ticket. Or he could get one of the Second Generation 'C' Series '51 Navy Colt 'Shooters models.' The one I had was extremely accurate plus it was the best looking firearm I ever owned. But, good luck finding one.
Last edited:
kBob
Member
Personally if we were not in dire straights (the bad kind not "Waters of Love")
I would be bidding on one of the .36 Remington Navies of the smaller frame and shorter barrel variety that I am seeing. Mind you NOT one of the Pietta "Navy" Remingtons that are just .36 models of their over sized .44 "1858" NMA but ones closer to the svelte original .36 Remingtons.
-kBob
I would be bidding on one of the .36 Remington Navies of the smaller frame and shorter barrel variety that I am seeing. Mind you NOT one of the Pietta "Navy" Remingtons that are just .36 models of their over sized .44 "1858" NMA but ones closer to the svelte original .36 Remingtons.
-kBob
MIOkie
Member
DavidB2 -
I have had very good results with my '51 Navy Pietta repro in .36, not the faux .44.
Has shot straight and true right out of the box.
Handles and points easily, practically aims itself.
Been wanting to file the "v" notch rear sight a bit more, but it really hasn't been an issue.
It points so nicely that I focus more on the target than the sights with good results.
I have had very good results with my '51 Navy Pietta repro in .36, not the faux .44.
Has shot straight and true right out of the box.
Handles and points easily, practically aims itself.
Been wanting to file the "v" notch rear sight a bit more, but it really hasn't been an issue.
It points so nicely that I focus more on the target than the sights with good results.
Colt built the Root revolver starting in 1855.
https://images.search.yahoo.com/ima...=yhs-mozilla-004&hsimp=yhs-004&hspart=mozilla
They also built a version as a long arm and it t was chambered for rifle and shot charges.
Kevin
- Status