1860 Army; Getting the most...
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Pulp
Member
I wouldn't recommend Laser Cast bullets, unless you've got a conversion cylinder that allows you to use .45 Colt. I don't think you could even seat a LaserCast bullet in the cylinder. They are too hard. You need lead bullets that are soft enough to scratch with your fingernail.
For your load, you'll need a BP measure. Set it to 30 grains then use it to measure your Pyro P. That would not actually weigh 30 grains, as Pyro is less dense than BP. If you can easily seat your bullet over a 30 grain load, then start working up until your bullet seats just below the rim of the cylinder. That will be your maximum load.
For your load, you'll need a BP measure. Set it to 30 grains then use it to measure your Pyro P. That would not actually weigh 30 grains, as Pyro is less dense than BP. If you can easily seat your bullet over a 30 grain load, then start working up until your bullet seats just below the rim of the cylinder. That will be your maximum load.
I bought this gun as a cheaper alternative to 45LC and was told I could get close to if not the same perfomance.
Is there a solder that I could cast non lead balls from? I am trying to keep from using any kind of lead.
Is there a good conical mold that I could use, or something a little more accurate than a ball? I have shot lead balls out of it and... Well, not what I'm looking for. Someone told me just to shoot copper jacketed, patched bullets, but they also said it would wear the barrel out.
Is there a solder that I could cast non lead balls from? I am trying to keep from using any kind of lead.
Is there a good conical mold that I could use, or something a little more accurate than a ball? I have shot lead balls out of it and... Well, not what I'm looking for. Someone told me just to shoot copper jacketed, patched bullets, but they also said it would wear the barrel out.
SixShootinSam
member
What Pulp said.
Anything but lead is simply too hard for these guns, if not dangerous to use.
Anything but lead is simply too hard for these guns, if not dangerous to use.
ontarget
Member
If that's what you are looking for IMO you bought the wrong gun.
As for performance, you may want to experiment a little more.
You could use lead conical bullets but a round ball is very accurate and effective.
May I suggest that you and your better half look into the REAL dangers of lead.
Not the propaganda out there to sell millions of gallons of new paint and plumbing parts.
As for performance, you may want to experiment a little more.
You could use lead conical bullets but a round ball is very accurate and effective.
May I suggest that you and your better half look into the REAL dangers of lead.
Not the propaganda out there to sell millions of gallons of new paint and plumbing parts.
You can buy lead balls pre cast ya know. Put them in a lock box with your other bp gear and tiny hands and open mouths won't be effected. Also, don't let him eat any paint chips LOL. By the way, as far as I know, LaserCast are primarily lead based with antimony as a hardener.
Well, looks like I'm gonna have to have a long talk with someone... I was also told that if you can get the Buffalo Ball-ets, they are the best for accuracy, loading, and getting the biggest charge... If you can get them Can anyone confirm this?
ontarget
Member
Lead round balls. Lock them up and don"t let the kids play with your guns till they are about 4 or 5 years old. The lead in a solid Non-vapor state is harmless unless eaten.
rcflint
Member
If you aren't allowed to use lead, you aren't going to shoot... Lasercast, or any other bullet you will buy are lead. Alloys of lead, but they are all lead. Even full metal jacket bullets are lead with a copper jacket over the front end, the rear is exposed lead.
Non-lead shot for shotgun hunting is available, but the metals used for shot are not appropriate for handgun cartridges, and certainly not for cap & ball, which, others have stated, must be, whether conical or round, made of pure lead, no alloy.
Buffalo Bullets are also.... pure lead.
As a kid groing up in the 40s/50s, we cast lead soldiers and played with mercury... we are most all of us still here, and those who aren't died from some other cause, unless the lead that killed them was met the hard way on a battlefield like Korea or Viet Nam.....
Non-lead shot for shotgun hunting is available, but the metals used for shot are not appropriate for handgun cartridges, and certainly not for cap & ball, which, others have stated, must be, whether conical or round, made of pure lead, no alloy.
Buffalo Bullets are also.... pure lead.
As a kid groing up in the 40s/50s, we cast lead soldiers and played with mercury... we are most all of us still here, and those who aren't died from some other cause, unless the lead that killed them was met the hard way on a battlefield like Korea or Viet Nam.....
You'll get vastly more Lead in your system from the Coffee Filters and other food-paper things in daily use, tap-water, corporatefarm veggies, corporatefactory-raised meat, handling newspapers, your own or neighbor's fireplaces, on and on and on, than you will ever get by handling Lead Bullets for loading/reloading Cap and Ball.
When I was a kid also, me and many other kids all melted Lead for hours and hours, cast things, played with old Lead 'Soldiers', rolled busted Thermometer Mercury in our palms, coated new Pennies with it so they went 'Silver' etc...
There's probably a thousand times as much Lead and Mercury in people's kids systems from the vaccines everyone has their childen get, that those kids would ever have gotten playing with Lead Soldiers.
It is not anything to worry about in these simple contexts of having Lead Cap and Ball Balls in the house or Lead Bullets for plinking and so on...all this got hyped into absurdity by special interest lobbies buying senators and other pimps for coercing markets for stuff they sell, and sell big...selling hysteria and really bad expensive 'solutions' most of all.
When I was a kid also, me and many other kids all melted Lead for hours and hours, cast things, played with old Lead 'Soldiers', rolled busted Thermometer Mercury in our palms, coated new Pennies with it so they went 'Silver' etc...
There's probably a thousand times as much Lead and Mercury in people's kids systems from the vaccines everyone has their childen get, that those kids would ever have gotten playing with Lead Soldiers.
It is not anything to worry about in these simple contexts of having Lead Cap and Ball Balls in the house or Lead Bullets for plinking and so on...all this got hyped into absurdity by special interest lobbies buying senators and other pimps for coercing markets for stuff they sell, and sell big...selling hysteria and really bad expensive 'solutions' most of all.
arcticap
Member
The firearm primers that are made of lead staphnate release vapors containing lead when they're fired.
Yet many very young children begin shooting smallbore and air rifles competitively in ventilated environments and also regularly handle ammunition, .22 lr bullets and lead pellets and never suffer any negative consequences as a result.
As with any hazardous substance in any modern household, they all need to be locked away and kept out of the reach of toddlers.
Youth competitors are taught to wash their hands after handling ammunition.
And there are many much more toxic and deadly household chemicals and medicines then lead in the average American home.
Being armed with the facts is the best way to combat an overly sensitive or negative attitude toward lead bullets, especially when the solution is as simple as keeping any hazardous materials out of the reach of young children which should already be a practice in any household with young children present anyway.
Electrical outlets are considered to be a hazard for young children too.
Yet many very young children begin shooting smallbore and air rifles competitively in ventilated environments and also regularly handle ammunition, .22 lr bullets and lead pellets and never suffer any negative consequences as a result.
As with any hazardous substance in any modern household, they all need to be locked away and kept out of the reach of toddlers.
Youth competitors are taught to wash their hands after handling ammunition.
And there are many much more toxic and deadly household chemicals and medicines then lead in the average American home.
Being armed with the facts is the best way to combat an overly sensitive or negative attitude toward lead bullets, especially when the solution is as simple as keeping any hazardous materials out of the reach of young children which should already be a practice in any household with young children present anyway.
Electrical outlets are considered to be a hazard for young children too.
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BullRunBear
Member
I have the Uberti 1860 Army. It is very accurate, at least to 25 yards, with round ball but the ammo has to be pure lead. There is no substitute for that. If I still hunted, I would not hesitate to use it for small game. But even loaded to the maximum (which probably won't be the most accurate) it delivers only the power of a 38 special which isn't really adequate for larger game. You would have to check with your state's regulations but the 1860 might not be legal for hunting anything except small game. I don't know who told you about using modern bullets in a cap and ball revolver, but they don't know what they are talking about.
If you are truly interested in handgun hunting for deer or wild boar size game, sell the Uberti and put the money towards a 7.5 inch barrel Ruger Blackhawk in 45 Colt. You can buy high power modern ammo for it. If you reload, forget casting your own bullets and just buy the suitable commercial ones. Keep the bullets and loaded ammo under lock and key. In fact all the relaoding gear: press, powder, primers, bullets and loaded ammo, etc., can fit in a small footlocker secured with a padlock. Wash your hands after handling the bullets and ammo. Unless your kid can pick the lock he'll be as safe as if the lead was in another state. It's no different tan any other "kid proofing" you might do.
No offense, but your wife's concern about solid lead is unfounded. As long as the kid can't suck on the bullet, there's no danger. If you can't convince her of that, forget firearms and take up archery.
Jeff
If you are truly interested in handgun hunting for deer or wild boar size game, sell the Uberti and put the money towards a 7.5 inch barrel Ruger Blackhawk in 45 Colt. You can buy high power modern ammo for it. If you reload, forget casting your own bullets and just buy the suitable commercial ones. Keep the bullets and loaded ammo under lock and key. In fact all the relaoding gear: press, powder, primers, bullets and loaded ammo, etc., can fit in a small footlocker secured with a padlock. Wash your hands after handling the bullets and ammo. Unless your kid can pick the lock he'll be as safe as if the lead was in another state. It's no different tan any other "kid proofing" you might do.
No offense, but your wife's concern about solid lead is unfounded. As long as the kid can't suck on the bullet, there's no danger. If you can't convince her of that, forget firearms and take up archery.
Jeff
Come on guys. Her concern is actually quite well founded. Lead is very poisonous to small children and we all know it. "As long as he doesn't suck on it..." Well, that's the problem, isn't it? She's worried that if the lead is around, even under lock and key, that the child will find a way to get into it, and she has a point. They're very good at doing things like that. And I personally commend her husband for respecting her views.
I'm not saying that a small child can pick a lock; I'm saying that we're all human and sometimes things are forgotten, like securing the lock when you're distracted by a phone call, or the lock doesn't get fully closed - it looks secure but really isn't. It only takes one small mistake to have a catastrophic event. When it comes to protecting small children there isn't any gray area - you do everything you can.
It was stated earlier that education is the best solution here, and I fully agree with that. The best way to cure a child's curiosity and keep them from playing with dangerous items like firearms and lead balls is to show them the items and give them a chance to satisfy that curiosity, while at the same time explaining that these are dangerous objects, not toys to be played with.
Firearms and dangerous (to children) items like lead balls must be kept locked away. But locks create curiosity, and kids will test them to see what's behind them. Allow the child to see what's under lock and key, and educate them as to the fact that they can hurt someone and they will soon lose interest in the 'secret place'.
The spouse should participate in this education, of course, and getting her involved will help to alleviate her fear as well. This won't be easy, but it's the only really safe alternative to having to give up the sport altogether.
I'm not saying that a small child can pick a lock; I'm saying that we're all human and sometimes things are forgotten, like securing the lock when you're distracted by a phone call, or the lock doesn't get fully closed - it looks secure but really isn't. It only takes one small mistake to have a catastrophic event. When it comes to protecting small children there isn't any gray area - you do everything you can.
It was stated earlier that education is the best solution here, and I fully agree with that. The best way to cure a child's curiosity and keep them from playing with dangerous items like firearms and lead balls is to show them the items and give them a chance to satisfy that curiosity, while at the same time explaining that these are dangerous objects, not toys to be played with.
Firearms and dangerous (to children) items like lead balls must be kept locked away. But locks create curiosity, and kids will test them to see what's behind them. Allow the child to see what's under lock and key, and educate them as to the fact that they can hurt someone and they will soon lose interest in the 'secret place'.
The spouse should participate in this education, of course, and getting her involved will help to alleviate her fear as well. This won't be easy, but it's the only really safe alternative to having to give up the sport altogether.
Thanks, mykeal. Like I stated before, she is concerned about times when I get up to get a drink, or answer the phone when I have this stuff out. He is two years old now and knows not to touch a real gun, but instead bring his toy guns in with mine. But, he doesn't understand that the bullets aren't to be messed with. He still doesn't quite understand what they are.
I started this thread to get info on getting the maximum out of my 1860, not to get "schooled" by a bunch of personal opinions about toxicidy. Nor, to have my wifes concern as a medical proffessional burned. It is her concern and I will try and respect it. In doing so I came here to see if there was an alternative. Doesn't mean I will stop shooting, just means I will TRY and find another route for her and my childs sake.
Now, back to the real subject. I have decided to try the Buffalo "Ball-ets". Do they really work as good as they say? Were they worth the $15? Also, is there anything I can do to beef up my 60 besides Ampco nipples?
I started this thread to get info on getting the maximum out of my 1860, not to get "schooled" by a bunch of personal opinions about toxicidy. Nor, to have my wifes concern as a medical proffessional burned. It is her concern and I will try and respect it. In doing so I came here to see if there was an alternative. Doesn't mean I will stop shooting, just means I will TRY and find another route for her and my childs sake.
Now, back to the real subject. I have decided to try the Buffalo "Ball-ets". Do they really work as good as they say? Were they worth the $15? Also, is there anything I can do to beef up my 60 besides Ampco nipples?
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Oh, and by the way... There is another way to get the same consistancy as lead, without having to use it. I just choose not to because of the price, although I have done it before. You can use Gamo, Diablo, or Skenco pellets to melt down and cast. It gets to be really expensive.
Now, I have a slough of 45LC pistols that I use for hogs. The reason I bought this one is because I'm tired of paying $1.20 a round for crap factory and $1.65 for Buffalo Bore's(which is what I usually shoot). I haven't had a BP gun since I was a kid and never have owned a C&B revolver, but I kept hearing that I can get excellent performance out of it and save alot of $$. No one told me how to get excellent performance though.
Now, I have a slough of 45LC pistols that I use for hogs. The reason I bought this one is because I'm tired of paying $1.20 a round for crap factory and $1.65 for Buffalo Bore's(which is what I usually shoot). I haven't had a BP gun since I was a kid and never have owned a C&B revolver, but I kept hearing that I can get excellent performance out of it and save alot of $$. No one told me how to get excellent performance though.
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arcticap
Member
The following thread becomes more relevant beginning with post #14:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=136743&highlight=buffalo+bullets
Performance. Ctnhrse. These are tried and true methods.
1. Start w/ a specific load (20g fff is low but a good starting point).
2. Choose between conical and rb
3. Decide whether to use a lubed wad or something like BoreButter or Crisco over the chamber mouths for preventing chain fireing.
4. Figure out whether to use # 10 or #11 caps (check for fit obviously).
5. Set up a 20-25yd target.
After you've done those things, fire off a 5 rnd cylinder with your chosen combination. Don't worry too much about POA (hitting the bullseye), at this point, concentrate on your grouping, use a bench rest. If you cloverleafed everything with an experimental intermediate sized load, don't change a thing! Chances are you'll get a grouping instead. Staying with either the rb or conical, increase the load 3-5g and do another cylinder continue up to 35g, 40max, but I don't think you can put a lubed wad in without crushing the powder some (never tried it). You will at one point find a load that gives you the best grouping, that's what your gun like to eat!!! If you're not satisfied, use the other type of projectile and start over. I would swab the barrel after each clyinder to be sure fouling isn't hurting your accuracy. For shooting POA, you can either raise the front site or file down the "v" notch in the hammer. For adjusting my POA, I installed a tall dove tail front sight and adjusted it accordingly. Think I covered enough for you to get started. Have fun!!
1. Start w/ a specific load (20g fff is low but a good starting point).
2. Choose between conical and rb
3. Decide whether to use a lubed wad or something like BoreButter or Crisco over the chamber mouths for preventing chain fireing.
4. Figure out whether to use # 10 or #11 caps (check for fit obviously).
5. Set up a 20-25yd target.
After you've done those things, fire off a 5 rnd cylinder with your chosen combination. Don't worry too much about POA (hitting the bullseye), at this point, concentrate on your grouping, use a bench rest. If you cloverleafed everything with an experimental intermediate sized load, don't change a thing! Chances are you'll get a grouping instead. Staying with either the rb or conical, increase the load 3-5g and do another cylinder continue up to 35g, 40max, but I don't think you can put a lubed wad in without crushing the powder some (never tried it). You will at one point find a load that gives you the best grouping, that's what your gun like to eat!!! If you're not satisfied, use the other type of projectile and start over. I would swab the barrel after each clyinder to be sure fouling isn't hurting your accuracy. For shooting POA, you can either raise the front site or file down the "v" notch in the hammer. For adjusting my POA, I installed a tall dove tail front sight and adjusted it accordingly. Think I covered enough for you to get started. Have fun!!
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Springs break, you should have some spares on hand. You can switch nipples if you want to, but that's just personal taste as far as I can see, mine have been holding up fine......DON"T DRY FIRE THE GUN, that's what breaks nipples. Clean after shooting. Some folks do a total breakdown, I don't except for after 7-10 shootings (outings). Always take the nipples out when cleaning the cylinder and a touch of oil on the threads before replacing. Man, there's a gazilloin things to learn....the devils in the details w/ bp shooting. Buy a Fadala book or 2, he's quite the scholar on bp shooting. Send me a PM and I'll give you my ph# if you want to talk.
Meralain
Member
I have several cap and ball pistols, a Ruger Old Army, 2 1851 brass frames in .44, and a .36cal 1851 steel frame. You DO NOT want to use laser cast bullets in your 1860!!!! They can and will make for a dangerous situation by increasing the pressures beyond what the open frame can handle. If you want to use this as a backup or primary hunting gun, I would recommend a pure lead cast conical, and 20-35 grains of FFF Black Powder. As far as the ins and outs, here is a brief summary of what I have learned over the last 15 years or so of shooting these guns: Pyrodex is a killer to remove. Don't use it. It contains chlorides--read bleach--that are harmful to metal if not completely removed. I have a pitted barrel to prove it. The best bullet lube I have ever used is a mixture of Crisco and bees wax. Melt it together until you get a lube that is solid at room temp, about like refrigerated butter. Sorry I don't have the exact ratio, it is written down somewhere in my gun box... As far as a load goes, each pistol I own is different. The best way to find the load is at a range, and a few shots at a time with a known powder measure. As far as cleaning goes, if you use Black Powder, water is amazing. Lots of patches, a toothbrush and hot water works wonders. When I am satisfied the gun is clean, I oil the internals with a good quality gun oil, and the barrel with the crisco/beeswax mixture. I take my pistols down to parade rest every other shooting session, and I find that if I try to extend that things get a little dicey. Another tip I read from Elmer Keith that I find really useful, is I put a "wonder wad" between the powder charge and the bullet, and I find that I see better groupings. As for nipples, you may find that a better quality nipple will benefit your pistol, I see quite a bit of variation in the quality of the factory nipples. As far as the lead dangers go, they exist. I deal with the danger by keeping my lead out of reach of little hands, locked up. When I am working with lead, I make sure that no one who is not aware of the danger can come in contact with it, and I do NOT melt any lead indoors. Springs do break as sltm1 mentioned, but they are easy enough and cheap to replace.
Saved the most important part for last: These pistols are a true joy to learn how to shoot and maintain, and the experience remains fun year after year. Good Luck and Enjoy!
Saved the most important part for last: These pistols are a true joy to learn how to shoot and maintain, and the experience remains fun year after year. Good Luck and Enjoy!
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