double bogey
Member
I inherited a CVA revolver that I beleive is an 1860 Army. However it has engravings of ships on the cylinder. It has an 8" round barrel, steel frame with brahh trigger guard. Is this an Army replica? .44 cal.
1860 Army?
- Thread starter double bogey
- Start date
- Status
madcratebuilder
Member
Sounds like it is, a photo would confirm that. Does it look like this one. The creeping loading lever on the 60 Army sets it apart from other .44's.
double bogey
Member
Thats it, what size balls should it shoot? I wish I had paid more attention when shooting it with my father 15 years ago.
Tommygunn
Member
If it's made by Pietta it will use .451" balls.
If it's Uberti or Armi San Marco it should use .454" balls.
If it's Uberti or Armi San Marco it should use .454" balls.
double bogey
Member
It's a CVA.
Fingers McGee
Member
CVA is the importer. They imported revolvers made by Uberti, Pietta and San Marco at different times. There should be a makers mark somewhere on the frame.
Pietta's have smaller chambers than San Marcos and Uberti's so the .451 round balls work fine. The .451s are a little loose for the San Marcos and Ubertis which makes the .454s the best choice for them. But, the .454 ball will work as well if not better in the Piettas depending on the shooter, pistol, powder, weather conditions, phases of the moon
, etc. They will just be a little harder to load in a smaller chamber. Since the 1860 Army has a creeping loading lever, the larger balls will not cause any damage or excessive wear on the gun. I use .454s in all my Colt style C&Bs from all manufacturers.
FM
Pietta's have smaller chambers than San Marcos and Uberti's so the .451 round balls work fine. The .451s are a little loose for the San Marcos and Ubertis which makes the .454s the best choice for them. But, the .454 ball will work as well if not better in the Piettas depending on the shooter, pistol, powder, weather conditions, phases of the moon
, etc. They will just be a little harder to load in a smaller chamber. Since the 1860 Army has a creeping loading lever, the larger balls will not cause any damage or excessive wear on the gun. I use .454s in all my Colt style C&Bs from all manufacturers.FM
rcflint
Member
1860
Don't let the Navy battle scene confuse you, Colt rolled it on the 1860 Army as well as the 1851 and 1861 Navy. The "Navy" Colt of 1851 came to be called that because of the Naval battle scene on the cylinder, not because it was associated with US Naval purchases. Colt called the gun a "Belt Pistol", not a "Navy".
As someone on another thread pointed out, the US Navy issued single shot percussion pistols to the sailors for boarding parties, not revolvers. Even after converting to cartridge guns, the Navy issued Remington Rolling Blocks.
Later definitions or specs defined a Navy as a 36 caliber revolver with a 7-1/2 inch barrel, and an Army as a 44 caliber revolver with an 8 inch barrel.
Don't let the Navy battle scene confuse you, Colt rolled it on the 1860 Army as well as the 1851 and 1861 Navy. The "Navy" Colt of 1851 came to be called that because of the Naval battle scene on the cylinder, not because it was associated with US Naval purchases. Colt called the gun a "Belt Pistol", not a "Navy".
As someone on another thread pointed out, the US Navy issued single shot percussion pistols to the sailors for boarding parties, not revolvers. Even after converting to cartridge guns, the Navy issued Remington Rolling Blocks.
Later definitions or specs defined a Navy as a 36 caliber revolver with a 7-1/2 inch barrel, and an Army as a 44 caliber revolver with an 8 inch barrel.
double bogey
Member
The frame has: 569xx (sn?), AH (in a box), PN (over the box), a circle with a star inside over the PN. The cyl has the PN with a star inside a circle over it. Cylinder also has "Engaged 16 May, 1846". There is one more mark on the frame, I'm looking for a magnifying glass to read it. Apparently one item i didn't get was his Possibles bag. Also have a .50cal Thompson Center Renegade rifle. He died in 2001, and I stuck these in the safe, pulled out to oil down regularly, now I want to shoot them. Thanks guy's, I remember these as being a lot of fun to shoot.
arcticap
Member
"AH" in a box is the date code for 1981 and indicates when it was proof tested in Italy and is relative to its year of manufacture.
Last edited:
Gatofeo
Member
You can use .454 inch balls in any revolver that uses .451 inch balls. You'll get a slightly larger ring of lead when seating the ball, but the difference wont' strain your loading lever.
I'd go with .454 inch balls. I've found the larger size more accurate in all my .44 cap and ball revolvers. I believe it's due to the larger ball creating a slightly wider bearing band for the rifling to grip.
For best accuracy, use a greased felt wad between the ball and powder. Doing so, you don't have to use grease over the ball; the lubricant in the felt wad provides all you need.
What lubricant? Use Crisco, lard, SPG, Lyman Black Gold or any natural grease. Don't use petroleum greases. In my experience, black powder when coupled with petroleum greases and oils produces a hard, tarry fouling.
Maximum load for your 1860 will be about 35 grs. of Goex FFFG with a .454 inch ball, without a greased wad. The greased wad will take up about 5 grains of space, so you'll be able to get it to fit if you drop down to 30 grains.
The Colt design is a much better natural pointer than the Remington. The Remington is stronger, but it's moot when black powder pressures are involved.
All Colts I've encountered shoot high at 25 yards, as much as 12 inches above the point of aim. They were designed to do so, as they were often used to augment the rifle out to 100 yards or so.
Taking your time, you can easily hit man-sized targets at 100 yards with these pistols. A good pistolero can hit the same targets out to 200, or give them a good scare!
Don't think for one minute that these pistols are toys. They're just as deadly as a modern arm; the ghosts of millions killed by cap and ball revolvers throughout the world nod their head in agreement.
Use FFFG black powder if you can get it; I've found it more accurate. Pyrodex works, but is more corrosive than black powder.
Which leads me to a final point: Clean your revolver immediately after firing it. Black powder, and its substitutes, are corrosive. They will promote rust within a day in damp climates, and in days elsewhere.
Clean it with hot, soapy water. Remove the cylinder, and then remove the nipples from the cylinder. You'll need a nipple wrench to do this. Remove the wooden grips, set them aside.
Now, strip it down to the last part and scrub everything thoroughly with brushes of varying sizes. Q-tips and pipe cleaners work well to get into tight places.
Rinse everything well, shake off the excess water, and place all metal parts in a shallow pan. Put the pan in the oven, set to its lowest temperature, and leave the door open a little to allow moisture to escape.
Thirty minutes in the oven will drive out all moisture. Re-oil with olive oil and reassemble. Put a little olive oil on the threads of each nipple, for easier removal next time.
Because this is a new, unfired gun I'm suggesting you give it a thorough cleaning. You'll likelyl remove all kinds of factory crud in the bargain. Depending on the humidity of where you live, you won't have to detail strip it each time you take it out: just clean the cylinder, bore, rammer, frame interior and sides of hammer with a damp cloth.
Then oil again with a little olive oil.
Eventually, it will begin to get harder to cock and drag, and it's time for the hot water bath and oven treatment again.
The Colt is a simple mechanism. You'll find all kinds of instructions on the internet for breaking it down. In no time, it will become second nature.
I'd go with .454 inch balls. I've found the larger size more accurate in all my .44 cap and ball revolvers. I believe it's due to the larger ball creating a slightly wider bearing band for the rifling to grip.
For best accuracy, use a greased felt wad between the ball and powder. Doing so, you don't have to use grease over the ball; the lubricant in the felt wad provides all you need.
What lubricant? Use Crisco, lard, SPG, Lyman Black Gold or any natural grease. Don't use petroleum greases. In my experience, black powder when coupled with petroleum greases and oils produces a hard, tarry fouling.
Maximum load for your 1860 will be about 35 grs. of Goex FFFG with a .454 inch ball, without a greased wad. The greased wad will take up about 5 grains of space, so you'll be able to get it to fit if you drop down to 30 grains.
The Colt design is a much better natural pointer than the Remington. The Remington is stronger, but it's moot when black powder pressures are involved.
All Colts I've encountered shoot high at 25 yards, as much as 12 inches above the point of aim. They were designed to do so, as they were often used to augment the rifle out to 100 yards or so.
Taking your time, you can easily hit man-sized targets at 100 yards with these pistols. A good pistolero can hit the same targets out to 200, or give them a good scare!
Don't think for one minute that these pistols are toys. They're just as deadly as a modern arm; the ghosts of millions killed by cap and ball revolvers throughout the world nod their head in agreement.
Use FFFG black powder if you can get it; I've found it more accurate. Pyrodex works, but is more corrosive than black powder.
Which leads me to a final point: Clean your revolver immediately after firing it. Black powder, and its substitutes, are corrosive. They will promote rust within a day in damp climates, and in days elsewhere.
Clean it with hot, soapy water. Remove the cylinder, and then remove the nipples from the cylinder. You'll need a nipple wrench to do this. Remove the wooden grips, set them aside.
Now, strip it down to the last part and scrub everything thoroughly with brushes of varying sizes. Q-tips and pipe cleaners work well to get into tight places.
Rinse everything well, shake off the excess water, and place all metal parts in a shallow pan. Put the pan in the oven, set to its lowest temperature, and leave the door open a little to allow moisture to escape.
Thirty minutes in the oven will drive out all moisture. Re-oil with olive oil and reassemble. Put a little olive oil on the threads of each nipple, for easier removal next time.
Because this is a new, unfired gun I'm suggesting you give it a thorough cleaning. You'll likelyl remove all kinds of factory crud in the bargain. Depending on the humidity of where you live, you won't have to detail strip it each time you take it out: just clean the cylinder, bore, rammer, frame interior and sides of hammer with a damp cloth.
Then oil again with a little olive oil.
Eventually, it will begin to get harder to cock and drag, and it's time for the hot water bath and oven treatment again.
The Colt is a simple mechanism. You'll find all kinds of instructions on the internet for breaking it down. In no time, it will become second nature.
Use a cleaner such as Hoppes or Ballistol and eliminate the oven step above. Not only that, but it's something you can take it with you in the field. Lots of folks on this forum like to stay traditional and do the hot water thing, and that's fine if that's your gig, but it's certainly not necessary when there are modern cleaners that are better and easier to use. IMHO.
gordy
Member
speeds and pressures?
I have a 1851 colt(italy)44 cal. that i shoot with 21 grains of fff triple 7.
I like 21. it is more fun for my son to shoot. and the brass frame will last a lot longer then max loads.
I have a crono and have not shot it across it yet.
I also have a fox river fifty from traditions that shoots great with 70 grains and a 295 powerbelt. All I know about this rifle is it was made by traditions in the 80,s for gander mountain. any help on more info would be great.
with it being as cold as a witches tit in minnesota. I have not shot this over the crono yet.
my traditions pro with 100 grains and a 295 powerbelt runs about 1950fps.
at the muzzel.
any one put there bp in front a crono and have some info to share that would be great to here about it.
I have a 1851 colt(italy)44 cal. that i shoot with 21 grains of fff triple 7.
I like 21. it is more fun for my son to shoot. and the brass frame will last a lot longer then max loads.
I have a crono and have not shot it across it yet.
I also have a fox river fifty from traditions that shoots great with 70 grains and a 295 powerbelt. All I know about this rifle is it was made by traditions in the 80,s for gander mountain. any help on more info would be great.
with it being as cold as a witches tit in minnesota. I have not shot this over the crono yet.
my traditions pro with 100 grains and a 295 powerbelt runs about 1950fps.
at the muzzel.
any one put there bp in front a crono and have some info to share that would be great to here about it.
- Status
