1860 R-M Conversion

[James K2020]

Just picked up from my FFL. Online order from TSS. Been looking at a Richards-Mason Conversion for some time and felt now was as good a time as any. Really wanted the Army grips and 1860 frame.
Already have a Man With No Name which is a Hollywood version of an 1851 conversion.
The 1860's round 8 inch barrel really makes a difference in weight and balance even though I have yet to fire it. Hopefully in a few more days.
The case coloring is really nice and the best cylinder stamp I've seen for a Uberti. Grips are nice too. They are supposed to be black walnut but from what I've read the Italian walnut has much more red than North American. All in all very nice.
One more thing I found very interesting- the trigger is offset to the left which I assume is to counter the tendency to put too much finger into your squeeze. With the larger grips and little longer distance to the trigger, my finger pad fits perfectly on the trigger. I know on my one 4.75" Pietta I have to really pay attention to keep my finger joint off the trigger instead of the pad. For some reason the distance from grip to trigger seems shorter on that Pietta than many other SAs.
Anyway, looking forward to some range time with this guy.



Nice case coloring and cylinder stamp of navy battle.




There is an offset to the left for the trigger. Right handed only?



A Triple K Crossdraw holster made for the 1860 Black Powder. Fits perfect.

 

[Dave T]

I bought several Italian imports back in the 1980s and came away disappointed. They couldn't temper a spring to save themselves back then. A gun shop owner who talked to the importers (Cimarron) said the makers never expected the crazy Americans to actually shoot those guns more than a few times. They thought people might try them out for a few rounds then hang them on the wall.

Fast forward to today and several of the Italian makers now produce good quality reporductions. They look better than they used to, they shoot better than they used to, and they last longer than they used to. Your conversion is a good example. Enjoy!

Dave

 

[1KPerDay]

Beautiful. I love conversions. The trigger is offset on all Colts due to the design FYI.

 

[James K2020]

Beautiful. I love conversions. The trigger is offset on all Colts due to the design FYI.

Silly me. After looking a little closer at my other Colts and their clones I realize they are all offset but the Ruger Vaquero is not. I've been shooting that one lately and lead me to believe all SAs were that way without bothering to look. Because this Army grip on the Conversion fits me so well I took notice without comparing to the others. Thanks for pointing out my oblivious error.

 

[Reinz]

Beautiful. I love conversions. The trigger is offset on all Colts due to the design FYI.

Don’t know if Sam Colt designed it that way because he was left handed, but probably why the loading gate was on the right side.

 

[1KPerDay]

Don’t know if Sam Colt designed it that way because he was left handed, but probably why the loading gate was on the right side.

I guess that's possible, but being right handed myself, I think the loading gate is in the correct place. I'd rather fumble and load cartridges with my strong/dextrous hand while holding the revolver and rotating the cylinder with my left.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Don’t know if Sam Colt designed it that way because he was left handed, but probably why the loading gate was on the right side.

A myth that has been going around for a long time. Nobody knows if Sam Colt was left handed or right handed. The loading gate on a Colt is on the right because that is where the recess for capping the nipples was on a Cap & Ball Colt. On a Remington too. Does anybody wonder if Eliphalet Remington was left handed? The cylinders on these revolvers rotates clockwise as seen from the rear. That is because the hand, which pushes the cylinder around, is on the left side of the frame. Placing the capping recess, and later the loading gate on the right side takes advantage of a cylinder that rotates clockwise, allowing all the nipples or chambers rotate past for capping or loading. If the gate was on the other side loading or capping would be awkward.

The trigger on Colts has always been offset to the left because the bolt sits on the other side. This is an Uberti Cattleman, not a Colt, but the design is the same.





The triggers on the old Three Screw Single Action Rugers were also off set to the side for the same reason.






On Modern Rugers the trigger is wider at the bottom, to create a bearing surface for the transfer bar. Keeping it wide for the entire bottom of the part has the effect of centering the wider trigger in the frame.

 

[bannockburn]

1KPerDay

Not positive but I seem to recall that the U. S. Ordnance Board may have wanted the loading gate to be on the right side so as to allow a Cavalry Trooper to be able to reload his SAA while he was riding.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

I dunno about that, but that is where the design, which is an evolutionary development of the older C&B designs, puts it. Putting the loading gate on the other side would require completely changing the design.

 

[1KPerDay]

1KPerDay

Not positive but I seem to recall that the U. S. Ordnance Board may have wanted the loading gate to be on the right side so as to allow a Cavalry Trooper to be able to reload his SAA while he was riding.

I'd be interested in seeing any evidence of that request. I'm not sure how the gate being on one side or the other is functionally preferable for cavalry, unless the soldiers were instructed to maintain a shooting grip while loading or they had to hold the reins in a particular hand or some strange reason. I'm trying to go over the process in my head and in that case it would seem like a LEFT side loading gate would be preferable for right handed shooters.

However I suspect DJ is correct that it was just a continuation of the cap/ball design, that was perpetuated IMO because a right-sided loading gate happens to be easier for a right-handed (majority of people) shooter to load, assuming he holds the frame/cylinder of the revolver in his left hand as we typically do today.

 

[bannockburn]

1KPerDay

I'm sure Driftwood is correct about the loading gate just being a continuation of the previous design. That would make sense too in that C.B. Richards and William Mason worked together on the cartridge conversion models and later Mason primarily worked on the Colt SAA design.

 

[BobWright]

All loading gates are on the right side of the frame, cavalry requirements not withstanding. The idea is that the right hand is the more dexterous and better able to find the chambers with the bullet nose. On the old Iver Johnson the cylinder pivoted out to the right side of the frame.


Bob Wright

 

[DocRock]

Elegant.

 

[bannockburn]

BobWright

On the old Iver Johnson the swilinder pivoted out to the right side of the frame.

So it also did with the French Model 1892 Lebel revolver. Supposedly back then the saber was the primary weapon of the cavalryman not the revolver. So I guess once he was done returning his saber to it's scabbard his right hand was now free to load the revolver in his left hand!

Viva la France!

 

[CraigC]

Rest assured that if the Army had wanted the loading gate on the left side, they would've gotten it. The SAA was designed by William Mason in a matter of months, strictly for the Army contract, long after Sam Colt's death.

 

[BLACKHAWKNJ]

During the Civil War Union officers carried their revolvers on the right hip butt forward and drew and fired with their left hand, they carried their swords on their left hip.
I find holding a Colt SAA in the right hand and pushing the ejector rod with the index finger of my left hand a very natural and comfortable action. The Remington M1875 has the ejector rod on the right side of the barrel but the button on my repro is still easy to reach.
The cavalryman's handgun was pretty much intended for close range self defense, his sword or his lance were his primary weapons.
It is only in recent years that society has accommodated lefties. In years gone by they were "encouraged" to write with the right hand.
Does that conversion allow you to switch back to percussion operation ?

 

[DocRock]

The cavalryman's handgun was pretty much intended for close range self defense, his sword or his lance were his primary weapons.

While this may have been true for European cavalry in which firearms were largely eschewed right up to WWI, US cavalry was developed primarily in the role of dragoons or mounted rifles, even prior to the Civil War. In fact, the opposite was true for US mounted troops. The sword (and the US never had lancers) was only ever used for close encounters with cavalry or in pursuit of routed troops, or fleeing Indians. With the exception of JEB Stuart's Confederate cavalry, the sword was really a secondary weapon, though your description of carry above is quite correct. US cavalry tactics, developed from the time of the French and Indian War, were about utilizing the horse for mobility to bring troops to bear. Firearms were intended to provide stand-off capability against Indians and revolvers originally played the role of (repeating) cavalry carbines, thus the, in-hindsight, rather odd specifications for the Walker Colt, for example.

 

[BLACKHAWKNJ]

There was the 6th Pennsylvania Cavalry-Rush's Lancers. So we did have one. I have never seen a Colt SAA or S&W Schofield with a lanyard ring. Yes, cavalry and dragoons were used by us as mobile infantry, screening, etc.

 

[StrawHat]

...The SAA was designed by William Mason in a matter of months, strictly for the Army contract, long after Sam Colt's death...

Correct, Colt died in 1861, long before ANY cartridge Colt revolver.

Kevin

 

[DocRock]

There was the 6th Pennsylvania Cavalry-Rush's Lancers. So we did have one. I have never seen a Colt SAA or S&W Schofield with a lanyard ring. Yes, cavalry and dragoons were used by us as mobile infantry, screening, etc.

A private unit raised for a four year duration that saw little to no fighting may be the exception that proves the rule. Everything about US mounted troops: training, tactics, actual deployment, even saddles, underscores their primary role as dragoons.

 

[James K2020]

Silly me. After looking a little closer at my other Colts and their clones I realize they are all offset but the Ruger Vaquero is not.

I'm glad my ignorance raised such an informative discussion about Colt designs.
I always learn more every time I'm here!

 

[BLACKHAWKNJ]

Trying load a Colt SAA while riding is something I'd like to see, even at a normal pace. Again, never seen one with a lanyard ring. And using the right hand to reload is not only more natural, but safer-keeps the index finger away from the trigger.

 

[Stophel]

Where did this come from? What is "TSS"?

This apparently is .38, not .45.??? It doesn't have an 1860 stepped cylinder.

 

[DocRock]

Trying load a Colt SAA while riding is something I'd like to see, even at a normal pace. Again, never seen one with a lanyard ring. And using the right hand to reload is not only more natural, but safer-keeps the index finger away from the trigger.

This is a good point. Why no lanyards? Not on Schofields either (the selling point for which was easier reloading). What about Colt M1892 and New Service? Did they have lanyards? If none of them did, why not? Doctrine? Ordnance weirdness? This is interesting.

 

[JCooperfan1911]

Sam Colt was in the business of making money. He would not have designed the revolver to suit a left handed shooter because he himself was one. He would’ve known then (like today) most were right handed and would have tailored the guns accordingly for the market.

Besides, he died in 1862. He probably never designed a loading gate to begin with.