1891 Argentine Mauser - questions

[ChillyW]

Many moons ago (probably 15 years) I picked up an old Mauser at a gun show, with the intention of chopping it up as a learning experience. I never could bring myself to hurt that poor thing though.

So now I've pulled it out of the gun safe, and am trying to figure out what to do with it. There's little info out on the web about the 1891 Argentine. As near as I can figure, there were a couple of carbine versions, but mine doesn't seem to match that description. So I've got to guess that it's been sporterized quite a bit. If so, they were pretty good at what they did.

Could someone knowledgable on these things take a look at these pictures, please, and make a guess as to whether this is an original carbine or a sporter?

What makes me suspicious is the barrel. It's about a 21" barrel. And the crown and front sight look like they belong there. The stock is original (all the serial numbers match, including the stock) and has the wire slots and the cleaning rod hole in it. But if someone cut down the stock, why didn't they put a forend cap on it?

 

[DnPRK]

It appears to be a long rifle that was cut down. The original barrel was 29 inches. It looked like a job done by someone who knew what they were doing. The stock was cut down, handguard removed and bolt turned down.
http://www.surplusrifle.com/argentine1891/index.asp

If it was in unaltered condition, it would sell for $450. In cut down condition, you would be lucky to get $75. Such is the hazard of hacking on "one of those old rifles".

 

[rbernie]

I saw one like this in a local shop just last week. Same cut-down barrel and all - I suspect that this was done by an importer.

My '95 Mauser had been given the same treatment, by the way - cut down the barel to just in front of the first barrel step and push the front sight all the way back to the step. It's really not that hard to do....

 

[Cosmoline]

I was on an Argie '91 kick a few years ago. I had a cut-up model much like yours and an intact '91. Both were great shooters. The ones from DWM are usually of later vintage than the Ludwig Loewe ones. I've heard that most of the Loewe's are actual antiques, while only some of the DWM are. Both are excellent rifles, and sport some of the finest stocks on any military rifles EVER. My intact argie had tiger stripes and was so well made that it hadn't warped in 100 years, in spite of its long, thin shape. Those were the days when Mauser had to work very hard for its contracts, and the rifles are nothing short of sublime. They put the average WWII fare to shame.

The 7.65 cartridge is quite interesting, but I found that the spitzer ball designed for the 1909 Argentine Mauser did not shoot well in the '91's. After some research and experiment I found that by loading to the old specs, with a 220 grain RN .313" bullet at moderate velocities, accuracy went from 3 MOA to 1 MOA. It was fantastic.

 

[ChillyW]

Thanks for all the info, folks. It looks like this one will probably end up being a wall-hanger.

I don't have any way to properly headspace it to see if it's safe to shoot. I did a couple of rough checks, and they both miked out to about .013 headspace. First check, I cut a piece of thin cardboard to size and stuck it on the base of a live cartridge. I managed to close the bolt (with the firing pin removed!) on it, but barely. I had squished the cardboard down. I stuck that in the micrometer and got .013". Then I started over, with layers of masking tape. Three layers of masking tape made it hard to close the bolt. And again, miked it at .013".

.013" seems a little bit excessive for my comfort. If I were a reloader, I'd probably make up some light loads and shoot it. But all I have is 20 rounds of who-knows-what's-in-it that I picked up at one point. And if it was loaded with a tight 1909 in mind, I'm afraid it might blow up my 1891.

 

[Cosmoline]

Hmm. I would expect the cardboard to bounce back to a certain thickness every time. It's far from an exact measurement. You can always take it to a gunsmith who has the no-go. It shouldn't cost much and will only take a second.

 

[ChillyW]

The cardboard and making tape tests definitely weren't definitive. A gunsmith would be ideal; if I can find someone with the proper gauge. Or I could get a lot closer with my testing, if I could find some thin metal shim material to use. But I'm not willing to cut up my feeler gauge, and so far my hunt for thin metal around the house hasn't gone well.

 

[rbernie]

Take a pop can or beer can and cut small disks out of it. The aluminum is soft enough to both form easily and to not hurt the rifle.

 

[Clemson]

I don't think I have ever seen a 7.65x53 headspace gauge for sale. Does anyone know where one might be purchased? Brownell's doesn't have them.

Clemson

 

[ChillyW]

Take a pop can or beer can and...

Right under my nose! Thanks, rbernie. That should have been obvious to me...