1903A3 First Shoot

[MechAg94]

I finally got my new CMP Remmington 1903A3 out to the woods to shoot. I got it a couple weeks ago, but it was raining hard so range time was out. I finally got back out there yesterday with my Dad. Had a lot of fun for a few hours. That rifle is one hell of a shooter.

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/wpeeb...one=http://photos.sbc.yahoo.com/ph//my_photos
Due to my problems posting pics last time, here is the link. I guess that will be easier on everyone.

First, we used a relatively untouched target from a previous outing. We thought we would waste some groups on this target getting the sights on the paper before trying to fine tune a little. To my surprise, with the sights set at the zero mark in the middle and the lowest elevation setting, the rifle was pretty much dead on at 25 yards. The first aimed shot was a dead center bullseye. I have never and will probably never shoot a more perfect bullseye in my life. (first pic) We were surpised because we had moved the sights back and forth cleaning cosmoline a couple weeks ago. If I had not had my camera, I doubt anyone would believe me.

The next couple of pics show the remaining 5 shots and some other groups at 25 yards. One of them was free standing. Our field expedient bench rest was not much better than free standing, just easier. I posted a couple of pictures of groups at a little over 100 yards on the red targets. Most of them were 6 inches or less. I can't take credit for the one 4 shot group as it was 5 shots with a flyer over the top of the box.

I really liked the trigger on this rifle. I have never really shot anything but standard triggers on military style rifles. This trigger was on the light side and did not have a hard point like most I have shot. It just pulled staight back and fired. It seemed to be an advantage as I felt I could just lay the sights across the target and pull back the trigger with rish of jerking the rifle. Maybe that is just my normally poor rifle shooting mechanics.

Altogether, I was very happy to shoot well with a new rifle, not to mention actually being able to hit what I aimed at right out of the box. I have never had a rifle do that. Probably never will.

The other pics show our shooting spot. My ParaOrdnance P14 45 is in one of the pics.

Question: Can anyone tell me what the approximate MOA adjustmet is on the elevation clicks of the 03A3 sights?

 

[Roadkill]

 

[Roadkill]

 

[Roadkill]

 

[Roadkill]

Good shooting.

rk

 

[jefnvk]

The 03's are simply a much nicer rifle than other milsurps, huh? Couldn't believe the difference in quality of my 1919 manufactured 1903, and even something like a Swede Mauser or a pre-war 98k.

 

[MechAg94]

I wasn't trying to say they were nicer. This rifle was just a good shooter and I liked the trigger. I was comparing to my M1, M1A, and AR15. Those are nice also, this rifle was just easier to pick up and shoot with little familiarity. Maybe it just fits the bad aspects of my shooting mechanics better. That is more likely.

The wide peep sight and fairly thin front blade made it easy pinpoint the targets. Also, I think this is the first time I have used those red targets at 100 yards. They seemed to be about the perfect size to see and zero in on with open sights. I will probably start using them most of the time. I tried to draw an X on the target at one point to get an extra group in, but I couldn't even see it since some shade fell over the box.

We had also brought some used plastic water bottles and a few aluminum cans to shoot filled with water. I put one bottle out at 100 yards. I got it on the first shot. I had expected to use 3 or 4. Anyway, the plastic bottles just split along the exist hole even with a .22. We noted that most fell forward as the water was ejected out the back. The aluminum cans just blew apart. I can certainly appreciate the difference in shooting practice between shooting targets and shooting cans or other knock down targets. When you are shooting for effect rather than a bullseye, it changes the way you approach the shot. I found I had to aim at the left side of the bottle to hit it consistently even at 25 yards. I may have to work on that.

 

[jefnvk]

I wasn't trying to say they were nicer.

I was Sorry if I sounded like I meant the opposite (rereading the post, I think that is what I sounded like). I meant that it is a much nicer rifle.

Of course, of all things, the only other milsurp gun I owned that could out shoot it was a Yugo Mauser (The Springfield was still a nicer gun, though)

I'm hitting up CMP again this week, to get some guns fixed, I may pick up an 03A3 to see if I like the sights better than my 03.

 

[NavajoNPaleFace]

Mech, the rear sights.....each click left or right equals 4MOA and each click vertically equals 100 yards.

You've got yourself a superior firearm and, having Swede M96s, I'd put my two 1903A3s just above them in accuracy.

Good shooting!

BTW, I like that one pick of a rattler lying next to that log, he he he he.

 

[cracked butt]

the rear sights.....each click left or right equals 4MOA and each click vertically equals 100 yards.

The windage adjustment on the 03A3 is 1 minute per click. There are a series of reference lines below the sight which are 4 minutes apart.

The elevation has markings at 100 yard intervals, but there are actually 50 yard clicks between them, at least on the upper end of the scale.

 

[cracked butt]

The 03A3s are dang good shooters. I have one that had a very badly pitted barrel that shot very good in that condition, when I installed a new 2-groove barrel, it became a spectacular shooter.

For shooting at 100 yards you might want to try a target that is easier to see. A solid black bullseye or even 1" 0r 2" (depending on your eyesight) orange stickon circles will be easier to see and shoot accurately at.

 

[Commissar Gribb]

I should be getting my '03 soon. I'll have to post pics and a range report.

 

[NavajoNPaleFace]

quote by cracked butt:

"The windage adjustment on the 03A3 is 1 minute per click. There are a series of reference lines below the sight which are 4 minutes apart.

The elevation has markings at 100 yard intervals, but there are actually 50 yard clicks between them, at least on the upper end of the scale."

refer to: www.surplusrifle.com/03a3/operations.asp

about 2/3-3/4 of the way down.

If this is inaccurate please post your source.

 

[MechAg94]

Look forward to hearing from you Commissar.

(never thought I would say those words. )

 

[jefnvk]

Cracked Butt is right.

The CMP 1903 manual says that the sight is graduated in 50-yard increments, and that windage, 1 click is 1 MOA, with the lines representing 4 MOA.

 

[cracked butt]

refer to: www.surplusrifle.com/03a3/operations.asp

Even stuff on the internet isn't always gospel truth.

If you measure the distance across all of the reference marks below the rear sight you will get approximately .200". There are 7 marks, so to go from the first hashmark to the last, you are travelling across 6 marks. If you take .200"/6 you get .033" between each mark.

It takes 4 clicks to move from one reference mark to the next.


If you want to see how this can be proven mathematically, here's a formula:

change in sight setting= (point of impact-point of aim ((inches)/distance to target(inches))*sight radius.

The average sight radius on an 03A3 is roughly 28 inches
We know that it takes 4 clicks to move from one reference mark to another on the rear sight so 1 click will move the rear sight (0.033"/4=0.0083")
The distance to the target is 100 yards x 36 inches/yard = 3600

All we have to do is solve for change in the point of impact for an adjustment (point of impact-point of aim)

So...

0.0083"= (X"/3600")*28"
0.0083"/28" = X"/3600
(0.0083"/28")*3600=X

X= 1.1"


I could have told you this from anectdotal experience, as my 03A3 shot 8" high at 100 yards at the lowest sight setting when I got it. Knowing that the hash markes were 4 moa and .03" apart, I cut a new front sight that was .06" taller than the original out of a piece of .050" thick sheetmetal. After mounting the new sight, the rifle was dead on.

Hope this helps.

I also took a look at the elevation of the rear sight, there are indeed 2 clicks of adjustment for every 100 yard graduation.

 

[30Cal]

During the WWI and later era, windage was refered to in terms of "points" and "quarter points." A point of windage (or one division on the windage scale) is 4MoA. One click on the 03A3 sight is a quarter point (1 MoA). I think the thumbrule they used to teach was wind value times hundreds of yards = # quarter points

Moving from 1 elevation detent to another (50yds) one will get you about 2-2.5 MoA.

 

[geojap]

I love my 1903A3. It's on one of my favorite rifles for sure. Great shooter, between 1 to 1.5 MOA. It's just beautiful.

 

[NavajoNPaleFace]

cracked butt, I appreciate the math lesson....really do.

I asked for your explanation because several of us in our lil group have A3s and that site I posted was our reference.

For me to have gone back to them and said, "Guys, we might have been wrong." I know a few would want an explanation why.

Now I can give 'em one.

Thanks.

 

[NavajoNPaleFace]

BTW...does anyone get annoyed at seeing the lower portion of the rear aperature (sp?) sight base while looking through the hole?

I see mine and it gives me a round hole on top and a near horizonatal cut at the bottom of the hole.

So, often, I get confused trying to figure out if the top of the front sight blade is truly centered.

 

[cracked butt]

"BTW...does anyone get annoyed at seeing the lower portion of the rear aperature (sp?) sight base while looking through the hole?
"

I've noticed this too while shooting. As long as you have a consistant cheek weld and focus your eyes on the front sight, it doesn't matter. The idea is to look through the aperture, not try to line anything up with it or center the front sight in it. So long as your eye is in the same position every time and you focus on the front sight, the shot will go to the same place.