1911 magazines revisited aka frankenmags

[sm]

I don't think Old Fluff has enough sympathy for us young bucks.

I am 49 years old.
To some I am a young buck, to others I am an old fart.

OT for a second okay?

Forget guns. Just MY simple observation about life. There is a simple , well designed way to make things with quality components.
Anytime something is altered it alters something else - this can be a good thing or a bad thing, still "something" changes "something" else.

I have no problem with pride of ownership, no problem with collecting for sake of collecting, no problem if in order for something to work for a user it needs to be fitted. I mean I have my trousers hemmed to correct length.

Here is where I DO have a problem. Folks "used to" learn to do things starting out with basics and fundamentals , in the CORRECT methods. Then applied said learnings to other areas. In other words - they EARNED it.

Now-a-days I feel too much is "instant gratification", " He who dies with the most toys wins" , "Trying to BUY skill, targets, and experience"....etc.

I grew up poor and had to "make do", " go without", " use lay-a-way" , " adapt, overcome and improvise". I did a lot of " please mister, uncle, (whomever) can I please?....I'll mow your yard, rake leaves, help paint..., I collected every soda bottle I could find for the 2 cents apiece, then later 3 cents apiece. Please Please teach me" . Be it guns, how to get a vehicle to run, or how to hem my own trousers.

OT 1911's and mags -

Yep I have Series I Kimber Target in stainless, its got a duck butt from the factory, It has always ran - with any magazine I put in it , from USGI to CMC 10 rd . Even running a 18.5 recoil spring with CP shockbuff ( sometimes). Yep I have carried concealed, have hunted , and played games. I just happened to have the money and wanted it - so I bought it.

I personally have run my own tests , like Vickers Sand Test, Like Tamara did with hers being tossed in the mud and dirt and then stepped on and fired. I have pulled a "Tuner" - tested similar to his testing.

ME personally. Give me a Gov't model of 1911 with USGI , Colt or Metalform 7 rd mags with the dimple. For CCW, For hunting with a 1911, for any gaming...see my thinking is use the gun you carry, have that gun(s) , and any holsters become an extension of you.

Or give me a Caspian Frame and Slide in blue , built to as close as possible to Gov't model, with quality internals from Ed Brown and a bbl from Schumann...etc.


In the game of life - there is NO "do-overs" .

Threre is hardly anything some man cannot make cheaper and sell for less - those whom buy based on price alone are this man's prey. - John Ruskin

 

[ken grant]

1911's

I have a Colt which is now broken(ejector) which hasn't been shot much.
Argentine 1911A1 made in 1952 that runs like a champ with anything in it.
Norinco 1911A1 full size that also runs like a champ with anything in it.
Norinco 1911A1 Compact that runs like a champ after TUNER put an extractor in it ( run well before, 1 FTE in 15 mags, now no FTE)

Good design,proper materials, made to spec.
WORKS EVERY TIME

 

[Dave Sample]

There is just no accounting for taste, is there?

 

[1911Tuner]

Tasty

There is just no accounting for taste, is there?

Reckon not...Hey! Didja see where the Philippine Security has adopted the Norincos for their thin blue lines? The reasons cited were accuracy, reliability, durability, and no failures or malfunctions in 5,000 round torture tests. Seein' as how they've got active terrorist cells in the islands, I'd say that speaks volumes.
Guess the Moros just didn't get the word about those junky old Norks...

How do ya say---> <---in Tagalog?

 

[Old Fuff]

I don't think Old Fluff has enough sympathy for us young bucks.

Chad:

It’s just the opposite. I am deeply upset that no one makes an affordable 1911 pistol to the original specifications. There is no reason someone couldn’t. The trouble is that that too many of today’s buyers, especially some younger ones, insist on “bling†rather then basics. The shape of the hind end of the grip safety has nothing to do with whether a pistol is or isn’t reliable. Using extractors that are cast or MIM parts does, because they can’t be properly tempered.

Manufacturers make what sells. Frankly the younger generation is fascinated with gadgets and gimmicks. Seven-round magazines won’t do, ya’ got to have 8, even if the pistol won’t work. Some do and some don’t, but as Tuner (and I) have explained on many occasions when you make an 8-round magazine in a 7-round box something has to give, and its usually the spring - and magazine spring tension is critical.

If you young guys would DEMAND an affordable pistol, and not lay your money down otherwise, it wouldn’t be long before you got what you wanted.

While I am very sympathetic with your position relative to being able to buy a good pistol, Id like to point out that Tuner recently took a bottom-of-the-line Springer, changed the extractor, spent a couple of hours making minor adjustments, switched out a couple of other parts for his own personal satisfaction, and then ran a thousand-plus rounds through it in a torture test that involved water, mud, and things I don’t even want to think about. And yes, it passed with flying colors. Do a search and you’ll find several threads about this. Then ask yourself, “Why didn’t the company make it that way in the first place?†The answer? Because YOU didn’t demand it.

 

[1911Tuner]

Tortured Springer

I took a basic GI Mil-Spec...and changed the extractor within 500 rounds. After that, the gun made it past 5,000 rounds without a parts failure and only one or two stoppages...ammo related. Examination revealed that failure was iminent
with some parts...possible in others...and likely a non-issue with a few others.

I upgraded the gun with machined steel commercial Colt and NOS USGI parts,
including: Hammer, sear, disconnect, short one-piece trigger, slidestop, thumb safety, grip safety, hammer strut, extractor, ejector, mag catch, and barrel bushing. All pins and springs were also swapped out as a matter of course. In its present state, I'd put the gun against anything on the market at three times the price for reliability and durability. Accuracy is better than I can prove without a solid rest...and I'm a pretty decent shot. The trigger now breaks clean at a tick over 6 pounds, which is nearly perfect for what I want the gun for...I wouldn't hesitate to stick it in a rucksack and carry it as a backup weapon in Hue City(1968)...or as a concealed carry pistol anywhere in the world. Since the upgrades and light tuning/attention to detail, it hasn't malfunctioned in 1500 rounds of various ammunition, including Blazer loaded with the infamous Flying Ashtray...long known to be the hardest to get to feed in a 1911...And yes, Cap'n...It feeds 200-grain jacketed SWCs loaded to 900 fps like grease thru a goose.

Cheers!

 

[John Forsyth]

Let me muddy up the water a little bit. Having Colts, Kimbers, Caspian based customs, and had a Springfield or two, I do not understand what all the commotion is with respect to magazines. All of the above run with Colt 7rd mags, Shooting Stars, Power Mags, WC 7, 8, and 10rnd mags, and Metalforms. Shoot, even the POS factory Kimber mags work in all of them. The question is for how long.

So, for me, it comes down to personal preference. Since I like to play the gun games, USPSA and IDPA, I want an 8rd and 10rd mag that takes a beating, they get dropped a lot, and keeps going. For that, I have found that the Power Mags in 8rds and the Wilson Combat 10rd mags, without any mods just plain work. You guys can talk all you want about 7rd mags being the best all you want, but I will take that extra round every time thankyou.

Now, you may say that the 8's are best for competition, but for carry 7's are best. I disagree with that. I want, no I demand, 100% reliability of my competition pistols and no less from my carry pistols as well. I just do not think that mix and matching mag components is the best way to go.

Just my $0.02.

 

[1911Tuner]

Mix'n'Match

Howdy John,

Good points...Good points.

One question in response to your statement:

"I just do not think that mix and matching mag components is the best way to go."
________________________

Would you list the different components from which your gun is built?

if one has no qualms over building a pistol with parts from several different vendors...which is how they're built today for the most part...Why would you have
issues with assembling a dead reliable magazine with components from different vendors?

As for 8-round magazines...Pay attention to your empty brass. Notice a burr on the edges of the rims that sometimes cause difficulty going into a shell holder?
If so...your extractor is climbing the rims on occasion. Not on every magazine...but often enough that it will cause premature extractor failure.
More pronounced with oversprung guns and/or undersprung magazines with smooth followers. I see a lotta busted and undertensioned extractors in pistols whose owners use these magazines.

That's the single biggest reason that I don't use 8-round magazines, and can't recommend them for serious guns...Just my 2% of a buck, though. YMMV

 

[John Forsyth]

Hey Tuner,

I have parts from just about every place that puts them out in my guns, Ed Brown, C&S, S&A, WC, Nowlin, EGW, etc. All good stuff.

I tried the mix and match for 10mm mags. Used Metalform mag bodies, with springs from Wolff, followers from WC, Metalform, even tried to close the feed lips on .45 mags to get reliable performance. Also tried modifying .38Super mags with the same approach.

You do not know how happy I was when CMC put out 9rd 10mm mags. While the Colt 8rd 10mm mags feed and lock back great, they tend to get the floor plate bent back a little from slamming them. Even though the CMC's have welded base plates, they are holding up very well.

...Notice a burr on the edges of the rims that sometimes cause difficulty going into a shell holder?...

Not really, but then again, my brass gets loaded so often, I usually lose it before it wears out. I will look a little harder at my next loading. Just tumbled a 1000, as I am about to make another loading.

I may not shoot as much as some, but I know I shoot a lot more than most, I do not have a problem with 8rd mags in a single stack. I found I did not have to do a thing to make Power Mags work in any on my 1911 pattern pistols. And they have been running for quite awhile. My personal experience is that Shooting Stars and Metalform use a too weak mag spring. They wear out to prematurely for me. I have also had the base plates fall off a couple of Shooting Stars in competition, , a bad situation in the middle of a stage.

Again, just my experience from shooting single stacks in competition for the last several years. I am sure others have different experiences and thoughts about the subject.

 

[45auto]

My 1911 seems to work well with a variety of mags, 8 shot Wilson, Shooting Star and 3 out of 4 Mecgar mags. Some are over 15 years old with 4-5,000 rounds through them. I use a lot of mags.

I have replaced some springs, but I've noticed that when I clean them they work like I put a new spring in...Ha. I use 200 SWC loads with 170 power factor, not hardball.

So, IMHO, 8 rounders are not a reliability problem, but I suspect springs will have to be changed sooner, probably need to be kept cleaner and 8 rounders are more difficult to "slam in" during a reload.

It doesn't go unnoticed by me that the FBI and Marines that use the 1911 variety, use 7 shot Metalforms and Wilson 7 rounders I believe I read. Perhaps very heavy shooters using ball or similiar with just 3-6 mags, etc are better served with a 7 shot...don't know.