1911 Serial Number help please.

[Coyote3855]

I am researching an interesting 1911. It is a Springfield Armory 1911 frame marked with the eagle over S 8 behind the trigger. There are initials small H large D on the muzzle side of the disconnector, small G on hammer side. UNITED STATES PROPERTY on left side of frame. Hammer, grip safety, and trigger are 1911 style with lanyard loop on the mainspring housing. Traces of Army black finish in protected areas. Magazine is WWI two tone without a lanyard loop.

Serial number is No (under strike under the o) 327 (large digits) 698 smaller digits.

The slide is a parkerized with Ithaca markings. Grips are WWII style brown checkered plastic.

The barrel is marked COLT 45 AUTO on the left rear, a D stamped on the link lug.

There are no arsenal rework markings visible when field stripped.

I’m confused about the serial number because it doesn't fall in the range of SA production, at least in the sources I've consulted. Any help would be appreciated.

 

[bannockburn]

Coyote3855

I did find a listing for the serial number range for Springfield Armory M1911s built in 1918 and it ran from 310000 to 355000. There was U.S. PROPERTY stamped on the left side of the frame on the dust cover and an Ordnance marking, also on the left side, near the magazine release. Hope this helps!

 

[Jim Watson]

Your receiver has all Colt characteristics according to Coolgunsite, Clawson, and Poyer.
None show SA serial numbers above 128000 or any made there in 1918 so I don't know what bannockburn is referring to.

 

[mag1911]

That S8 inspector mark wasn't required on Springfield frames, only contract pistols accepted by the government. Springfield frames have the flaming bomb mark in that area.

 

[Coyote3855]

Thanks to all who posted information. I am a volunteer updating the firearms inventory for a local museum and will not have access to the 1911 again until next week. I will arrange for pictures as staff are available and post them.

Here's a link to Springfield Arsenal markings that me led to believe the frame is SA as there is the eagle head over S8 just behind the trigger guard. Yes, pictures.

Common M1911 Exterior Markings

My best guess is that this was a non-arsenal rework.

By 1911 style, I meant that the hammer is wide with knurling on the spur, the grip safety has the short spur at the top, and the trigger is the longer version. Wear on these matches wear on the frame. I will post pictures as soon as they are available.

Many of the firearms in the collection are incompletely or incorrectly identified. There is a nice Colt SAA in .32-20 caliber that the donor alleges belonged to Tom Horn. However, the Colt was made in 1907, four years after Horn was hanged in Cheyenne. I am attempting to correct as many of these errors as my limited knowledge and inexpert research allows.

 

[Jim Watson]

The (eagle)(number) stamp was substituted for the chief inspector's monogram on Colt 1911s in 1918 after Springfield Armory production had concluded.
Here is the rather uneven mark on the gun Mr Clawson illustrated in his book as an example of the late "Black Army" Colt.
http://coolgunsite.com/images/1911/clawson1919/MVC-846F.JPG
Here is an (eagle) S8 on a 1918 commercial transfer Colt.
http://coolgunsite.com/images/1911/1918sn334070/MVC-760F.JPG

You describe a "mixmaster" with 1911 Colt receiver, a 1911A1 Ithaca slide, and a Colt 1911A1 barrel.
The mismatch in finish between slide and frame are an indication that it was not assembled as an arsenal or even depot level refurbishment.

Working up information on museum collections accumulated by non-enthusiasts can be fun. A couple of us on TFL discussed a lot of unusual guns with the curator of a museum in a Latin American capitol.

 

[Coyote3855]

Jim, thank you for nailing it. I appreciate your assistance.

Yes, it borders on amusing to read the descriptions entered in the accessions file by staff unfamiliar with firearms. I would do an equally inadequate description of the myriad of other items that end up in a museum collection.

 

[AlexanderA]

Yes, it borders on amusing to read the descriptions entered in the accessions file by staff unfamiliar with firearms.

The Texas Memorial Museum (University of Texas at Austin) once labeled a Spencer carbine on display as having a "stabilizer" cutoff. When I wrote to them pointing out the error -- among many others --, I got a letter back, months later, saying that "expert opinions differ." Curators are loath to admit mistakes.

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

There was a little town not far from where I grew up in Illinois that had a local history museum with a small display dedicated to the town's WW1 veterans. The display (behind glass) included uniforms, medals, a Springfield rifle and an incorrect 1911a1. They didn't get many visitors, and I didn't want to raz the two volunteer staff members by pointing it out.

I did, however point out to them that they may want to secure the complete, functional- looking, and rather valuable Lewis machine gun that was literally leaning in a dusty corner a little better.......

Twelve year old kids probably shouldn't be allowed to play with things like that.

Judging by the dust coverage, I was the first one to handle the thing in years!