1911 Slide to Frame Fit: Now I Have Proof

[schmeky]

I really love a great 1911 slide to frame fit. My Les Baer and Early Model Kimber Classic Custom are excellent examples of pistols I personally own with a tight fit.

I have a "G.I." spec Norinco that has the typical military slide to frame fit, i.e. slight rattle. I always thought this will never be a super accurate pistol, no matter what I do. I installed a Kart hard fit barrel and oversized match bushing and took great pains to ensure a really tight fit.

From a sandbag rest I managed a "best" of 5 rounds in .75", 6 went into 1.00". I still love a great slide/frame fit, but it ain't no biggie any more; now I have proof for me. I'll post a pic tonight.

 

[Old Fuff]

Back in the dark age of pre-history (1960's) USAF Match Armorers determined that out of a complete 1911 platform accurazing job, a tight frame/slide fit only accounted for 3% of the overall improvement in accuracy. The single most important factor was how the barrel was fitted.

This is not to say that frame/slide fit can be ignored in a match gun, but simply its importance is often overstated.

 

[rellascout]

I agree with old fluff. It is so over stated. The lock up of the barrel is much more important than the frame to fit. At most 5%

http://www.burnscustom.com/frametoslidefit.html

 

[atomd]

I agree it's not the be all end all of accuracy...although it does play a role. To me, it's more of a matter of overall craftsmanship. A 1911 with a sloppy rattling slide is a warning sign that there might be other parts that are not fitted quite so well to go along with it. I don't think it's technically overstated though. It shows what the maker is capable of doing.

Not too many 1911 builders are going to offer a well made, accurate 1911 with a nicely fitted match grade barrel/bushing along with a horribly fit slide/frame. At least none that I know of. Why go 95-98% of the way when you can go 100%?

On the other hand, I can't shoot well enough offhand to notice the difference....

 

[Old Fuff]

It depends on what you want in a 1911-platform pistol. It is often noted that Uncle Sam's 1911 pistols often rattled...

But they also worked - out of the box.

 

[willbrink]

It's my understanding slide to frame fit is one of the least important factors in accuracy of the 1911. The gun I had built for daily CCW has a fair amount of play in the slide to frame as i told the smith above all else, reliability was the # 1 priority for the gun. The barrel lock up, and bushing however are tight, and the combo made for a very reliable plenty accurate for SD gun. The super tight slide to frame fit is all the rage these days, but it's not major factor/deal breaker I look for in 1911s if I know the rest of the gun is GTG. As others pointed out, if it points to an overall lack of quality, then that's another story.

 

[Dobe]

But they also worked - out of the box.

Yeah, they did.

 

[schmeky]

What this has proven to me, is you can buy a "good" 1911 and make it whatever you want. As a novice home gunsmith, I knew the slide to frame fit was not critical, but this Norinco project has made me realize the time I could have spent trying to tighten the slide frame would not have been worth the effort.

It's been a great learning experience.

 

[Noveldoc]

In ye olde days we used to clear up GI 45 rattle by putting the slide in a vise and giving it a little tweak. Then paint a little auto valve lapping compound onto the rail and slide and work it until it slid smooth. Carefully clean all the lapper off and lightly wipe on a little grease.

A kaboom with no wiggle. You usually had to go through 50 rounds or so before you got total reliability back on the cycling.

All that work though and I can't say it did a damned thing for accuracy.

Tom

 

[1911 Operator]

yeah, people pay thousands for highend 1911's, but is it really going to be more accurate than one costing less than half as much?

are the extra features like a polished inside so you don't see the machining marks (in the case of ed brown) worth the extra money?

my champion operator and para gi expert both shoot non-ragged, clean one hole groups with a two hand hold and i paid far less than a grand for each.

 

[alistaire]

When I hear a 1911 rattle I think 'A combat weapon, not an effete race gun that can't be dropped in the dirt'.

 

[Master Blaster]

A tight slide to frame fit is very important to accuracy if you are using a frame mounted red dot or other frame mounted sight. If your optical sight is slide mounted its not so important.

 

[schmeky]

Meant to post this a few nights back. This from a seated sandbag rest, 7 rounds total, 5 are in .75", 6 are in 1.0". I took great care to hard fit this barrel using a jig for my mill so I could remove the barrel/slide unit and return it to -0- consistently. Just proves to me the slide is not that critical.

 

[wilkersk]

I get a chuckle about threads like this.

I've been telling folks about my old National Match. It is tight as a pin, accurate as hell, and it eats roundnose all day long. Its tuned for roundnose, it shoots round nose.

This is one of those pistols that you can still see the peening marks where the Armorers hand fitted the slide to the frame. Barrel lockup is very postitive. And it don't rattle!

You can have a tight 1911 that is accurate and reliable. The secret is, like with any auto loader, when you want accuracy and reliability, you have to tune the ammo and pistol to each other. You sacrifice versatility for accuracy.

You can slam "effete race guns" all you want (as if any tight pistol would only be used in open division competition) . But, in a pinch, I'd rather have an accurate pistol with rounds that are built to be run through it, than a sloppy old off 'da shelf gun anyday.

I don't have to depend on ammo from who knows where, I don't want an outa 'da box pistol.

 

[capttom]

Not being an expert on 1911s, but simply a fan of the design, I've long lamented the over tightening of the platform. I've had 7-8 Colts dating from the late 70s. Not a one ever gave me any problems with feed or function, even with handloaded 185 lrad SWCs. They would all hit a gallon jug at 25 yards, plenty good for me at the time. Too often at a range I'll see men and women grunt and groan over their 1911s that won't run. Accuracy won't count a tinker's dam if the gun won't feed whether you're shooting paper or meat.