1911-style .22 autoloaders by Chiappa, GSG

[WVGunman]

Anyone ever shot either one? Any good? GSG stand for German Sport Guns, I think.

 

[Fast Frank]

There are pros and cons...

See, in order to bring the price of those guns down they have substituted less expensive metals for steel.

The original guns were forged out of steel and then carefully machined to exact tolerances. This takes expensive materials and then raises cost with lots of labor.

These low dollar guns have parts cast out of soft zinc alloys then painted and assembled. Yes, they have steel parts where the soft alloys won't work but for the most part they are cast pieces.

So, the original guns took decades to wear out, and could take abuse like being dropped on the ground without breaking.

The softer metals in the "Replica" guns will wear from use, and the ability to withstand abuse is far less.

So, the discussion has to move to what you expect from your new gun.

If you merely want to play with it, and don't care about target grade accuracy or intend to pass it down as an heirloom then the zinc pistol might make you happy for a fraction of the price.

If you intend to use the gun for serious business and expect it to work 100%, or would like to shoot tiny little groups, or think that your gun should last a lifetime, or expect to have any sort of pride in ownership of a quality handgun...

Then spending a little more money to buy the real deal is for you.

Personally, I prefer to buy quality. I do, however, understand why many folks prefer to buy cheap and seem to have all sorts of fun with their chiappas.

 

[Havok7416]

I owned a Chiappa 1911-22 and it was quite possibly the worst pistol I've ever owned. The trigger pull was well over 14 pounds out of the box (it read off the end of the scale when tested). A gunsmith managed to get that down to 7 pounds along with target sights, but it was never a good gun for me. I sold it.

It's entirely possible I got a lemon though because I have a Chiappa Rhino 60DS and it runs like a top. Both guns represent a sample of one though.

 

[Tacoma]

I had one branded by SIG. I believe it was GSG manufacture. It was a decent gun but took some tweaking to get it to run on anything but cci mini mags. Even then, it wasn't reliable enough for gun games /competition so it got traded off.
That said, I have a few high end 1911 conversions that don't run 100% either.
IMHO, if you want a reliable and accurate 22 auto loading pistol, it's hard to go wrong with the Ruger MK or 22/45 series.

 

[usp9]

My GSG 1911-22 works fine. It has a decent trigger, is reliable and quite accurate. The magazines are easy to use and well made. Take down isn't as simple as some others. The sights are easy to see. I've shot some pretty good groups. A good gun IMHO... not great, but good. No reason I can see this gun won't last a long time.

 

[badkarmamib]

My GSG 1911-22 works fine. It has a decent trigger, is reliable and quite accurate. The magazines are easy to use and well made. Take down isn't as simple as some others. The sights are easy to see. I've shot some pretty groups. A good gun IMHO... not great, but good. No reason I can see this gun won't last a long time.

My experience was similar. My only problem was the finish wore while resting on felt. I stripped the frame and slide, ended up with a two-tone grey 1911 that wouldn't rust since it wasn't made of steel.

 

[wally]

I owned a Chiappa 1911-22 and it was quite possibly the worst pistol I've ever owned. The trigger pull was well over 14 pounds out of the box (it read off the end of the scale when tested). A gunsmith managed to get that down to 7 pounds along with target sights, but it was never a good gun for me. I sold it.

It's entirely possible I got a lemon though because I have a Chiappa Rhino 60DS and it runs like a top. Both guns represent a sample of one though.

Totally matches my experience, I'd wager the ones that work and hold up are the rarities. I threw good money after bad shipping it back to them for repair and if anything it came back worse! Maybe if they marketed it as a "live fire failure drill trainer" it could be a good gun purchase for someone.
I've no experience with the GSG but they appear better made than the Chiappa.

If you really want a 1911 in .22lr get a Marvel upper for your 1911 and practice with the same trigger as your .45, costs about the same as these ersatz .22 1911 and they work and shoot well although they may require "high velocity" ammo.

 

[CaptHank]

I had both, the GSG was better in quality. Sold the Chiappa to a guy, that wanted it for parts. Go figure. My local range officer talked me out of the GSG. I now have a Ruger 22/45, which is running great.

 

[WVGunman]

IMHO, if you want a reliable and accurate 22 auto loading pistol, it's hard to go wrong with the Ruger MK or 22/45 series.

Already got one, a MKIII with 5.5" bull barrel. It's ok ... just a bit too heavy for the caliber. Shooting it feels like work. I like my SR22 better.

If you really want a 1911 in .22lr get a Marvel upper for your 1911 and practice with the same trigger as your .45, costs about the same as these ersatz .22 1911 and they work and shoot well although they may require "high velocity" ammo.

The only Marvel conversions I've seen for sale were north of $350, while the GSG and Chiappa are both less than $250 if you shop around. Wouldn't mind buying a conversion, but cost IS a factor. Plus, taking a 1911 apart and putting it back together all the time sounds like a p.i.t.a.

 

[doubleh]

I bought a Chiappa after giving up on finding a GSG. None of the gunshops anywhere in my area could get the GSG. It was an OK gun and shot well and I experienced no problems but the fit and finish weren't exactly great. I quit looking for a couple of years and just shot the Chiappa. A couple of years later I dropped into the LGS just to visit with the owner and there was a GSG in his display. We did a trade involving not much money and I haven't regretted it at all. If appearance matters to you the GSG is well above the Chiappa on that feature. On a side note I stopped by a week later and the Chiappa was gone.

 

[il.bill]

I have sold 15 or 16 of the GSG M1911 Pistols chambered in .22LR and without exception, every customer, including myself, likes it a lot (German Sport Guns also make the Sig Sauer branded model). GSG has a patented 1911 .22LR magazine that seems to work very well. The manufacturer tells you that you need to use high velocity ammo for best reliability - I have had great luck with HV round nose ammo from CCI and Federal Auto Match. They do not run 100%, but I never had a .22LR pistol that did, what with firing pin dimples at times in a section of the rim that has no primer.

I bought a Sig Sauer .22LR conversion (made by GSG) that I have used successfully on Colt and Remington full size .45 ACP Government Model 1911s. I liked that so much that I sold the GSG dedicated .22LR 1911 pistol when I ran out of new ones. On three different occasions, I had customers come back in with a family member, co-worker, or friend who had fired their GSG .22LR 1911 and wanted to buy one for himself.

I live in a small town in southern Illinois where people may not be very 'sophisticated', but tend to both know what they like and be careful in spending their money. The GSG M1911 .22LR Pistols sell for about $269 plus tax with a dealer cost usually at around $239. They produce a lot of fun (if not bang) for the buck. About the only firearm I have sold more of in my three years as a part time gun dealer has been stripped AR-15 lower receivers.

 

[larryh1108]

Plus, taking a 1911 apart and putting it back together all the time sounds like a p.i.t.a.

The Ciener conversion (link below) has a 1911 conversion for $199. They also have a "top-of-the-line" model for $249. (I have that one). As for taking apart a 1911, all you do is slide off the old slide and slide on the new slide... insert slide release... done.



http://www.22lrconversions.com/1911-pg.htm

 

[WVGunman]

The Ciener conversion (link below) has a 1911 conversion for $199. They also have a "top-of-the-line" model for $249. (I have that one). As for taking apart a 1911, all you do is slide off the old slide and slide on the new slide... insert slide release... done.

That sounds more like it, but still ... for another $50 or less I could get a whole new gun. Hmm.

 

[Janos Dracwlya]

I have one of the GSG 1911-22's and have been quite happy with it. There have been a few malfunctions, but not many. Accuracy has been good as well. I am a satisfied customer where it is concerned.

 

[highlander 5]

Ciener is still in business? His customer service leaves something to be desired. I've an Advantage arms conversion that so far has had 1 malfunction in approximately 1000 rounds. Mount it on a S&W frame.

 

[larryh1108]

Ciener is still in business and the Old Man, who was a crabby old ass, is not involved in the day-to-day operation. I've had great CS and the product has been better than expected.

 

[bannockburn]

I also went the .22 conversion route on an old Essex 1911 frame I had. Tried getting a Marvel unit but they were always out of stock. Found a TacSol conversion assembly that was very well made and reasonably priced and went with that. Have been very pleased with it's quality and performance and their customer service has been first rate.

 

[bluzman]

My GSG 1911-22 works fine. It has a decent trigger, is reliable and quite accurate. The magazines are easy to use and well made. Take down isn't as simple as some others. The sights are easy to see. I've shot some pretty good groups. A good gun IMHO... not great, but good. No reason I can see this gun won't last a long time.

I also have a GSG 1911-22 and I agree with these comments. I think it's important to note that the real reason that the slide is not made from steel is because the .22LR can only generate a small amount of force to push the slide rearward. The slide needs to be made of a lightweight material. There's a good discussion of this here: http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/03/joe-grine/gun-review-german-sport-guns-gsg-1911-22/

 

[hdwhit]

Fast Frank wrote:
These low dollar guns have parts cast out of soft zinc alloys then painted and assembled. Yes, they have steel parts where the soft alloys won't work but for the most part they are cast pieces.

Yep. I've got an old Rohm RG-25 in 25 ACP. It's a Zamak-wonder that I got for a song in the 1970's because it was supposedly a jam-o-matic. And it was. Or, it was until I cleaned it, polished the feed ramp and got a new magazine. It hasn't had problem one since. In fact, it and the S&W revolver I inherited from my grandmother are the only two guns that have not had a failure of some sort in the last four decades. So, yes, I'd take a chance on another Zamak-wonder.

The softer metals in the "Replica" guns will wear from use, and the ability to withstand abuse is far less.

Understood. No argument here. Zinc does not last as long as steel in applications involving tensile stresses.

So, the discussion has to move to what you expect from your new gun.

Does it go bang when I pull the trigger and does it do it often enough and reliably enough to make my days at the range more than an exercise in futility?

If you merely want to play with it, and don't care about target grade accuracy or intend to pass it down as an heirloom then the zinc pistol might make you happy for a fraction of the price.

My sons will inherit my money and my land. The older knows how to reload but has no interest in it. The younger wouldn't even take the time to learn how to reload. In terms of firearms, they are dead to me.

 

[czhen]

I would get a Nelson kit (salty in price 500$) with the frame of your preferences.
Improve the trigger later, after you find the best ammo for it and voila.

 

[imashooter]

No mention of the "Colt". I have the Colt/Walther/Umarex/ Insert Name Here. Have quite a few rounds through it with nary a hiccup. Lot of fun and good 1911 "trainer". I'd purchase again in a heartbeat. The only thing I've done to it (just for the heck of it) is install a ZRTS spring. Perfect reliability and excellent accuracy with any ammunition though It seems to be a tad more accurate with hotter loads. Last year I began indoctrinating my 7 year old grandson with it and the M&P 15-22. He loved them and did surprisingly well. Great pistol.

 

[WVGunman]

I feel like anything with "Colt" stamped on it has an extra 50% added to the markup for no apparent reason.

 

[dusty14u]

I have the Officer sized GSG 1911-22 and it has been a nice addition. It shoots bulk box ammo with no issues and is fairly easy to break down and clean if you follow the directions. It isn't as accurate as my Ruger MKII but not too bad.

 

[Bottom Gun]

I briefly owned a Sig branded 1911 style .22. It was absolute junk. Accuracy was terrible and it wouldn't function reliably with a number of different magazines. I would NEVER buy another. The Sig Mosquito I tried wasn't much better.
In the past, I've owned Colt, Ceiner, Kimber and Jarvis .22/.45 conversions. All have functioned well with the Kimber being the most accurate. I recently acquired a Kimber Rimfire Target which, so far, has been totally reliable and quite accurate.