Hi, My best Phoenix area gunsmiths are really struggling to get my revolver to fire on center in double action. They also tell me that Colts are a real pain in the neck and no one likes to work on them. So far, this is a real shame, because the gun is about 95% otherwise, but till they're done, the repair will have outweighed the value of the gun. Any insight?
1957 Colt Official Police revolver strikes on center in single action, but off center
- Thread starter gmyarko
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Your Colt is a fine revolver, but it's a bird of a different color - which is to say the lockwork is not the same as found in Smith & Wesson's, Ruger's and other popular makes. You need a gunsmith that has been trained and is experienced in understanding the Colt system, and unfortunately they are few and far between.
If your local 'smith doesn't know what he is doing, and goes in the wrong direction, you may be in serious trouble because replacement parts can be difficult, if not impossible to find.
Returning to the Colt system, when the trigger is pulled all of the way back the cylinder should be locked tight with no rotational movement. At the same time the chamber should be in perfect alignment with the bore. This is checked and confirmed with a guage called a range rod, and if your 'smith doesn't have one for the caliber in question he shouldn't be working on revolvers in the first place.
If when shooting double-action the trigger isn't all of the way back when the hammer hits, the cylinder may have a little rotational movement that would explain a little off-center hit on the primer. If the gun always fires this is not of serious consequence, but if it is way off something is wrong, and it should be corrected. While it is improbable, it is possible that the cylinder is not locked when the cartridge is fired and the chamber is seriously misaligned with the bore.
I suggest that you return the revolver to Colt's service department, where they have both the expertise and specialized equipment to fix it - if it is still "fixable."
If your local 'smith doesn't know what he is doing, and goes in the wrong direction, you may be in serious trouble because replacement parts can be difficult, if not impossible to find.
Returning to the Colt system, when the trigger is pulled all of the way back the cylinder should be locked tight with no rotational movement. At the same time the chamber should be in perfect alignment with the bore. This is checked and confirmed with a guage called a range rod, and if your 'smith doesn't have one for the caliber in question he shouldn't be working on revolvers in the first place.
If when shooting double-action the trigger isn't all of the way back when the hammer hits, the cylinder may have a little rotational movement that would explain a little off-center hit on the primer. If the gun always fires this is not of serious consequence, but if it is way off something is wrong, and it should be corrected. While it is improbable, it is possible that the cylinder is not locked when the cartridge is fired and the chamber is seriously misaligned with the bore.
I suggest that you return the revolver to Colt's service department, where they have both the expertise and specialized equipment to fix it - if it is still "fixable."
GooseGestapo
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Back in the day, I worked at a Gun Shop after school while in high school. It was always said that the Colts "wore out" and the Smith & Wessons "wore in", meaning that they just got smoother and better, whereas the Colts quickly developed timing problems such as yours. But, the Pythons and Diamondbacks were things of beauty!
I recently repaired a friends Colt "Agent" that had belonged to his dad. He and his dad had both carried the gun on duty for many, many years. The gun had started hitting so far off that it was misfiring. Attempts to "qualify" with it were failures.
I was able to make some minor fitting adjustments and got it to fire but it still was hitting off center. It will/would require a new larger/longer-oversize "hand" to be installed to get it to "pick up" the cylinder enough to lock before it drops the hammer.
It is not a repair for just anyone. Even a lot of "so called" gunsmiths aren't familiar with the system. This was obvious as my friend had had a lot of different firearms armorers and gunsmiths attend to this firearm (and was obvious with screw head marring- I "fixed" some of that, too- but had not done anything to significantly improve the function.
I don't think the timing was "correct" on his gun when it left the factory in the early '60's. It suprises me that the gun functioned as well as it did, for as long as it did. Which fits into the mindset at the time that Colt was turning out junk, even back then. That's why there are no new Colt revolvers (execpt SAA) available now.
I'd not be suprised to know/find out, that your gun has been doing this since not long after it left the Colt factory.
I'm not even sure that Colt still services it's revolvers....
I recently repaired a friends Colt "Agent" that had belonged to his dad. He and his dad had both carried the gun on duty for many, many years. The gun had started hitting so far off that it was misfiring. Attempts to "qualify" with it were failures.
I was able to make some minor fitting adjustments and got it to fire but it still was hitting off center. It will/would require a new larger/longer-oversize "hand" to be installed to get it to "pick up" the cylinder enough to lock before it drops the hammer.
It is not a repair for just anyone. Even a lot of "so called" gunsmiths aren't familiar with the system. This was obvious as my friend had had a lot of different firearms armorers and gunsmiths attend to this firearm (and was obvious with screw head marring- I "fixed" some of that, too- but had not done anything to significantly improve the function.
I don't think the timing was "correct" on his gun when it left the factory in the early '60's. It suprises me that the gun functioned as well as it did, for as long as it did. Which fits into the mindset at the time that Colt was turning out junk, even back then. That's why there are no new Colt revolvers (execpt SAA) available now.
I'd not be suprised to know/find out, that your gun has been doing this since not long after it left the Colt factory.
I'm not even sure that Colt still services it's revolvers....
It seems that you have a 'problem' that is not generally understood.
Most likely the cylinder is not locking properly because the bolt is not dropping at the right time.
If your local "gunsmith" isn't trained on the Colt system he would have to learn at your expense.
( I served several years as a helper before becoming adapt as a Colt repair person. I eventually did warranty work for them before retiring).
Colt does offer repair/service work on the majority of the D, E and I frame revolvers
Invest in a phone call to them and see if your revolver qualifies.
If Colt does the job, it usually comes out with no more than two hours labor and the parts. They return revolvers to as new mechanical specifications as a general matter of heir operations in the service department.
Most likely the cylinder is not locking properly because the bolt is not dropping at the right time.
If your local "gunsmith" isn't trained on the Colt system he would have to learn at your expense.
( I served several years as a helper before becoming adapt as a Colt repair person. I eventually did warranty work for them before retiring).
Colt does offer repair/service work on the majority of the D, E and I frame revolvers
Invest in a phone call to them and see if your revolver qualifies.
If Colt does the job, it usually comes out with no more than two hours labor and the parts. They return revolvers to as new mechanical specifications as a general matter of heir operations in the service department.
1957 Colt Official Police strikes off center in double actio
Hi, Thanks for the response. I'm calling my Phoenix Gunsmiths this week to get the gun back. Hopefully, the work & changes won't be too immense. It's a shame because I had two unrelated gunsmith's and an avid collector all tell me the gun was a good 95%, not having been used for most of its life, and just being kept oiled and dry, enclosed in a foam storage box. The cyclinder locks very tight, and works great in single action, directly on center. I mean I can't even detect the most minor movement of the cyclinder that it locks so tight. So far, the feedback I got from the Magnum Precision Gunsmith in Phoenix was that, "when they adjust one thing, something else goes out". Trust me, I would never downplay gunsmithing, but working on mechanical things all my life, It kind of raised a red flag for me when they initially told me they didn't like working on Colts. In retrospect, I wish they would have left it alone and simply said, "we don't know what we're doing with a Colt and you'd be better off taking to a Colt specialist"....I don't know how much I'm willing to spend on a $550 or so gun, but it is such a shame because it looks to be in otherwise fantastic shape. I was hoping to sell it and buy a semi-auto 45 acp of some sort. Thanks for the response.
Hi, Thanks for the response. I'm calling my Phoenix Gunsmiths this week to get the gun back. Hopefully, the work & changes won't be too immense. It's a shame because I had two unrelated gunsmith's and an avid collector all tell me the gun was a good 95%, not having been used for most of its life, and just being kept oiled and dry, enclosed in a foam storage box. The cyclinder locks very tight, and works great in single action, directly on center. I mean I can't even detect the most minor movement of the cyclinder that it locks so tight. So far, the feedback I got from the Magnum Precision Gunsmith in Phoenix was that, "when they adjust one thing, something else goes out". Trust me, I would never downplay gunsmithing, but working on mechanical things all my life, It kind of raised a red flag for me when they initially told me they didn't like working on Colts. In retrospect, I wish they would have left it alone and simply said, "we don't know what we're doing with a Colt and you'd be better off taking to a Colt specialist"....I don't know how much I'm willing to spend on a $550 or so gun, but it is such a shame because it looks to be in otherwise fantastic shape. I was hoping to sell it and buy a semi-auto 45 acp of some sort. Thanks for the response.
In response to GooseGestapo.......Hi, This gun certainly didn't wear out. It was hardly fired. My dad owned for 35+ years, and never fired it once. Just oiled it and put it away. Thats why everyone tells me its 95%. Another part of your response struck a nerve too, when the gunsmith from Caswell's here in metro Phoenix pulled out a very imprecise small screwdriver to begin to disassemble my Colt in front of my eyes, and I watched his crappy screwdriver slip and burr the previously perfect screw. That was my very first exposure to a gunsmith. I thought, "If this is a gunsmith, then I should be a gunsmith", because from what transpired for the 30 minutes before my eyes, I thought I could have done better work than him, and had more of it figured out than he did. I'm really hoping that when I go to get the gun this week, that they don't rake me over the coals for something they couldn't fix, and as someone else suggested, maybe I can find out who to contact at Colt to see if they can work on it. Thanks for the response.
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