20 Gauge wad height question

[Grayrock]

I am loading Triple Se7en. I am in need of a shorter wad. I currently am using the Win AA 20 ga wads. What wad is shorter (base of shotcup to bottom of wad). I need more shot and more powder, and the only thing that must change is the wad length. If I put in my powder and shot in my desired amounts, the overall column height is too great and I get either a bulged crimp or a wrinkled/squashed shell.

 

[HSMITH]

What does the reloading data tell you to do? Don't play with shotshell loads, follow printed data or you can have dramatic pressure spikes.

 

[Shoney]

You did not mention the hull you are using??????????

Shotshell loading is a very specific recipe oriented process. The internal shape and base wad heights are wildly different from brand to brand. You need to match the right wad to the right hull. Switching components can not only raise pressures, but can endanger your weapon, not to mention your body parts.

 

[snuffy]

Tripple SEVEN

Guys he's loading a black powder substitute, tripple 7. It is very bulky, so he simply needs to know what wad would be shorter for use in his loads. He don't need to be concerned with pressure, that stuff burns at low pressure.

Grayrock, I would look for some 1 oz. wads, they are a little shorter to allow for the extra shot.

 

[Grayrock]

Right now I'm using Win AA hulls. I sometimes also use Rem STS hulls. There IS no data for 20 gauge shells on the Hogdon site. They only list 12 ga as shown below:

Triple Seven

Shotgun

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

CARTRIDGE SHOT CHARGE BARREL LENGTH CASE PRIMER POWDER POWDER MEASURE SETTINGS VEL (FPS) PRESSURE
12 Gauge 2 3/4" 1 1/8 Oz. Shot 30" Win AA.
Win.AA12R Wad Win. 209 Triple Seven FFG 70.0 Gr. 1187 7,700 CUP

I did find some 20 ga info under the Cowboy action section. However, it was only for a card wad and "filler" (Funny- in another part of Hogdon's data they say 777 is not to be used with filler!) I have discovered that I NEED a shotcup- otherwise the shot spreads out too much.

http://www.hodgdon.com/data/cowboy/t7prdxbls.php

20-2 3/4
7/8
Card+
Filler
80 gr. Pyrodex
1134
5,800

20-2 3/4
1
Card+
Filler
70 gr. Pyrodex
1090
5,900

20-2 3/4
1 1/8
Card+
Filler
65 gr. Pyrodex
1052
5,900

 

[HSMITH]

I understood that it was a black powder substitute load. What I don't know is what the load does, black powder will make plenty of pressure for shotshell loads and I won't play in completely uncharted waters.

Have you tried emailing or calling Hodgdon?

 

[Grayrock]

Have you tried emailing or calling Hodgdon?

Yes, sir. They simply replied that I could take any 20 gauge blackpowder data and just reduce it by 15% for Triple Se7en.

 

[Shoney]

If I read the problem correctly, you need a wad that has a shorter distance between the over-powder wad and the shot cup???????????????

If this is the case, then you can get the same brands next higher weight wad (EX. - if loading 1oz then get the 1 1/8oz wad and so forth). The over-powder wad will be the same and the space between the OP wad and the shot cup will be less. Just cut enough off the top of the wad to get the desired shot cup capacity.

 

[Grayrock]

Shoney- you da man!! That is exactly what I am looking for. Now- can you provide a source for this elusive

same brands next higher weight wad

???

That is the root of my problem- it seems in 20 gauge (remember the title of this thread? 20 gauge wad... ) that the manufacturers only make 1 type of wad. I do not have the luxury of choosing from many types as the 12 gauge loaders do. Can you please provide a source? I would be forever grateful.

 

[JackM]

The Remington SP20 wad might work as it's a 1 oz. rated wad. Ballistic Products has quite a bit of speciality reloading products that you don't find everywhere. Check them out.
http://www.ballisticproducts.com/

Bye
Jack

 

[fecmech]

Grayrock-- the Ballistics Products 20 ga. "Brush" wad or their stell wad would probably be your best bet. You could just cut the petals off the shot cup in the AA or Remington target wad and that would give you more room. I'm guessing you are using this for some type of cowboy action shooting where ranges are close. Nick

 

[Shoney]

Grayrock: You would probably be better off to go to a store with a wide selection of wads. Take the wad you are using and physically compare it to the wads they have.

Ignoring the shot size designation, select the wads that have the OP wad to shot cup length that fits.

If the shot cup holds more shot than the amount you need, trim the cup back to hold the desired amount of shot. Or, like fecmech said, remove the petals either partially or remove them altogether. For your "custom load" you will need to do some experimenation.

I have done just this in 20ga 2 3/4" loads with 1 1/8oz shot. I had to remove the entire center wad post of wads intended for 1 1/4oz loads in 3" hulls (of the same brand and base wad construction as the 2 3/4" hulls), then trim about3/16" off the cup.

Let us know what happens!

 

[Shoney]

Grayrock: You would probably be better off to go to a store with a wide selection of wads. Take the wad you are using and physically compare it to the wads they have.

Ignoring the shot size designation, select the wads that have the OP wad to shot cup length that fits.

If the shot cup holds more shot than the amount you need, trim the cup back to hold the desired amount of shot. Or, like fecmech said, remove the petals either partially or remove them altogether. For your "custom load" you will need to do some experimenation.

I have done just this in 20ga 2 3/4" loads with 1 1/8oz shot. I had to remove the entire center wad post of wads intended for 1 1/4oz loads in 3" hulls (of the same brand and base wad construction as the 2 3/4" hulls), then trim about3/16" off the cup.

Let us know what happens!

 

[Grayrock]

Over on the Cowboy Action forum I found a pardner that uses the Ballistic Products short wad. He was kind enough to send me a few samples. They have possibilities. With my regular recipe the component column is still a tad high. I had to pour off a little shot to get a crimp. If I reduce the powder a little I should be able to use these wads. I have a universal charge bar coming that I just got off eBay. When I gets here I can tweak more easily.

 

[Waldog]

Recent manufacture WAA20 wads are "redesigned" to be used with their "new" AA hulls. These wads are specifically designed for Winchester high density powder, WST or WSF. By high density, I mean low-volume. I tried to use the new WAA20 wads in my old style AA 20ga. hulls with Hodgdon powder and was NO way 7/8 oz would fit into the "new" wads. I finally found a load for 3/4 oz. that worked well and allowed me to use the "new" wads.

If you are going to use a bulkier powder, you are going to have to use a different wad, or find a load for 3/4 oz of shot. Triple 7 is a very bulky powder.