2020 Candidates VS. Gun Rights

[P5 Guy]

I am a single issue voter, and I find it sad that there are no 100% pro-gun politicians. Some are less anti-gun than others but both of my Florida senators have pushed gun control in one or another form. Rubio with red flagging on the federal level like Scott did on the state level when governor.

 

[theotherwaldo]

“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”― Edmund Burke

-If you can't find someone to vote for, find someone to vote against.

By the way, the last time that an American political party became this fragmented, lost a presidential election and then refused to accept the winning president, bad things happened.

Why are we trying to repeat that?

 

[SharpDog]

Barack Obama: Too Easy to ‘Buy Machine Guns’ in America:

The Daily Mail quoted Obama saying, “Gun laws in the United States don’t make much sense. Anybody can buy any weapon, anytime without, you know, without much if any regulation. They can buy over the Internet. They can buy machine guns.”

There are number of problems with Obama’s claims.

The first is the assertion anybody “can buy any weapon, anytime…without much if any regulation.” This is simply untrue. Firearms are highly regulated in the U.S. via background checks for retail point of sales, registration requirements in states like California and New York, and mandated waiting periods for gun purchases in numerous states as well.

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/...f-Nd_B4r7ETbjVHJRnFPkROU2bXrUBOO0oIYvm7t5QKhI

 

[Kaybee]

The reason the Dems keep mentioning the NRA is because they are selling a narrative that gun owners actually support their legislations and bans and it’s just the NRA fighting them to make money by the gun industry.

This story has traction with people that don’t know gun owners because both parties have problems with prioritizing American citizens over wealthy lobbyists.

It also feels good to them, sounds better than, “hey we’re intending to take away important, dearly held rights away from half the country”

 

[Tommygunn]

The degree to which the Democratic candidates are antigun is not important. What's important is the degree to which the Democratic base is antigun. The candidates are politicians, and they will respond to what they perceive the base wants. Right now, the antigun message appears to be resonating among Democratic primary voters. It's not among the top issues, but it's resonating. That calculus will change as we get closer to the general election.........

So everything is hunky-dory, righf?
Wrong.

I don't think anything really big is going to happen in the next 4 years.
But after that, political and demographic changes might cause very big problems for the pro 2A community.

In the early 1990s during Bill Clinton's reign, Hillary proposed a massive healthcare takeover that flopped.I thought, 'good, no one is ready for the government to take over such a big swath of America's economy.'
Then along came Obama and promised to do it.

And he succeeded, after I thought he'd fail.

"It is easy to lead people into some persuasion, but difficult to hold them in that persuasion," Niccolò Machiavelli.

And politicians are real big into the persuasion business.

 

[Deanimator]

Shut down debate??!!?!?! So .... not only is the 2A on the chopping block, so is the 1A.

Yeeeup .... as a previous poster said, WE ARE AT WAR.

It's always a package deal.

You have to eliminate the 2nd Amendment first, otherwise it's too dangerous to try to eliminate the 1st.

 

[Dudedog]

Look at what Kamala Harris did as Attorney General of CA.
Look at CA gun laws now and what the Dems here have done, if you don't want to see CAs rules on a Federal level vote wisely.
Sadly it usually comes down to choosing the lesser of evils.

Interesting snip from Wikipedia on Democracy Development

"Carroll Quigley concludes that the characteristics of weapons are the main predictor of democracy, Democracy—this scenario—tends to emerge only when the best weapons available are easy for individuals to obtain and use. By the 1800s, guns were the best personal weapons available, and in the United States of America (already nominally democratic), almost everyone could afford to buy a gun, and could learn how to use it fairly easily. Governments couldn't do any better: it became the age of mass armies of citizen soldiers with guns Similarly, Periclean Greece was an age of the citizen soldier and democracy."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy

 

[JTHunter]

I just posted this article and am posting the link here. In Illinois the Dems have a super majority and their governor in place. They can now push through whatever they want, and it's an attempt at an end around the 2A. They'll do the same nationally, given the chance.
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2...g-fingerprint-submission-fees-to-touch-a-gun/

Amen to that !
That's why there are a lot of people following the expression "G.T.F.O.O.I." (Get the X$#& out of Illinois) because many of us figure that Illinois is a "lost cause". With the culture evident in Springfield and Chicago and the way they con the voters, many of us do not see an end to the state's problems.

 

[kmw1954]

Here too everyone is focused on the Presidential Candidates though I try my best to try and remind people, that is just the tempo of the agenda. One really needs to pay much more attention to their local elections and know who is controlling their schools, community, county and state. That is where the difference is made and where these National Candidates come from. Unlike out current President people do not just rise from nowhere to lead the county.

There are now what 24 Democratic Presidential Candidates now? I believe we better pay attention and listen closely to each and every one, to read between the lines as it were.
I am from Southern Wisconsin and to be honest I cannot begin to guess which political direction the electorate is leaning. All I can ask is know who you are voting for.

 

[P5 Guy]

The first is the assertion anybody “can buy any weapon, anytime…without much if any regulation.”

Well, that is why the black market sells guns, too easy to break the law thru this market. Which has always been available to the folks that have no time for the law.

 

[AlexanderA]

One really needs to pay much more attention to their local elections

Yes, I see much more of a threat to gun ownership at the state level, especially in states that are trending blue, such as Virginia.

It's entirely plausible to split one's ballot, voting one way at the federal level and another way at the state level. This is even easier in Virginia, because the state elections take place in odd years.

 

[Deus Machina]

Times are tough for moderate and liberal (in the traditional sense) voters right now.
Put votes where they'll do the most, and don't be afraid to split them.

 

[FlSwampRat]

We can still talk about why they are attacking the NRA. The NRA is almost radioactive these days.

I have friends who think the NRA is as worthy of blind hatred as the KGB or Hitler's SS. The problem is with those folks (my friends, not the NRA) they believe with all their hearts and minds that their position is correct (because all of the like minded friends believe it is correct and they all reinforce each other's beliefs) and no calm rational discussion can take place. We have to ignore those areas to still enjoy each other's company. They are fed lies and trying to disabuse them of their position is nigh impossible.
I was chatting with one such friend who my wife and I happened to run into at a diner last night and the news report of the Virginia shooting was playing silently on one of the televisions. He shook his head and said "Sure we need more guns! More assault rifles! More killing!" Of course, from everything I've been able to read about the incident the shooter had a .45 pistol with a suppressor. But even David Hogg had to jump in and tweet "How many more?".
I don't know how to overcome the shrill voices of the misinformed do gooder who, like everyone else, would love to see this sort of thing not happen, but hasn't any clue how to get it to do so other than getting rid of the guns, which as we know isn't going to stop the crazies from harming and killing people.

 

[AlexanderA]

I have friends who think the NRA is as worthy of blind hatred as the KGB or Hitler's SS.

There are two groups who are hating on the NRA these days: The antigunners who think that the NRA is doing too much to protect gun rights, and the pro-gunners who think that the NRA is not doing enough to protect gun rights. It's a tossup as to which group is the most vociferous.

 

[GEM]

I might remind you that Wayne La Pierre was one for the Nazi analogies:

1995: The government is full of jack-booted thugs in bucket helmets. "It doesn't matter to them that the semi-auto ban gives jack-booted government thugs more power to take away our constitutional rights, break in our doors, seize our guns, destroy our property, and even injure or kill us," LaPierre wrote in an NRA fundraising letter, according to the April 28, 1995 Washington Post. "Not too long ago, it was unthinkable for federal agents wearing Nazi bucket helmets and black storm trooper uniforms to attack law-abiding citizens... In Clinton's administration, if you have a badge, you have the government's go-ahead to harass, intimidate, even murder law-abiding citizens," he wrote. "Even murder" was underlined. A rival, more radical NRA official suggested LaPierre respond, "If the jackboot fits, wear it." He later tried and failed to oust LaPierre, according to the May 1997 American Spectator.)

https://www.theatlantic.com/politic...e-saying-hyperbolic-things-about-guns/318915/

The use of Nazi, fascist, socialist, etc. usually demonstrated a lack of intellect or deliberate rabble rousing on the part of the speaker. I hope we can avoid it. Most folks throw the terms around and don't even know the historical or philosophical underpinnings of the group descriptor.

Let's move on. Have we reached the end of this thread?

 

[Tommygunn]

I might remind you that Wayne La Pierre was one for the Nazi analogies:



https://www.theatlantic.com/politic...e-saying-hyperbolic-things-about-guns/318915/

The use of Nazi, fascist, socialist, etc. usually demonstrated a lack of intellect or deliberate rabble rousing on the part of the speaker. I hope we can avoid it. Most folks throw the terms around and don't even know the historical or philosophical underpinnings of the group descriptor.

Let's move on. Have we reached the end of this thread?

While Nazi allusions are not particularly convincing, it should be remembered that LaPierre's comparison came in the aftermath of the despicable events of Ruby Ridge, where government agents shot a 14 year old boy in the back, and an unarmed woman holding a baby. Gerry Spence, the defendant's lawyer, got his client off on the most serious charges using the prosecution's own case.
And, the the Branch Davidian fiasco at Waco Texas, where a miserably coordinated and mostly bungled attempt at arresting a religious extremist wound up obliterating a number of children, along with others.
These actions might not be .... "Nazi-esque" in that they weren't part of a national socialist extremist movement, but they spawned a militia movement of people who greatly feared government malfeasance.
With due respect, LaPierre's statements were not, in that light, as extremist as they might appear to be today.

But yes, Nazi comparisons can easily Godwin a thread.

 

[Kaybee]

I think all this highlights the importance of fighting for gun rights in blue states as well as red states. The complete polarization of gun rights is not good for proponents of the 2a.

Legal ownership by Black owners is one of the largest growing groups of gun owners, along with women. These should be encouraged.

The wider this is accepted the better it is for Everyone.

It was NOT always unthinkable for a Dem to be pro gun.

—

Also, I think there should be more emphasis on encouraging shooting sports. I know skeet isn’t where the battle is at but that’s another avenue to bring people in.

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Also those weird Dana ads, the clenched fist of justice crap, and anything themed like that has got to stop!

 

[Jeb Stuart]

I think all this highlights the importance of fighting for gun rights in blue states as well as red states. The complete polarization of gun rights is not good for proponents of the 2a.

Legal ownership by Black owners is one of the largest growing groups of gun owners, along with women. These should be encouraged.

The wider this is accepted the better it is for Everyone.

It was NOT always unthinkable for a Dem to be pro gun.

—

Also, I think there should be more emphasis on encouraging shooting sports. I know skeet isn’t where the battle is at but that’s another avenue to bring people in.

—

Also those weird Dana ads, the clenched fist of justice crap, and anything themed like that has got to stop!

You are dreaming. The Blue rise of voters in my area will not come close to voting for anything other than Democrat and they are one of the biggest anti 2nd amendment rights advocates out there. Kamala Harris is from California, and campaigning headquarters, in Baltimore. She will be going after all the Blue Urban voters who will go all the way with her. My former Red State is now Blue. And being eaten way every day by the Rise of Blue voters. Nothing but a growing cancer. Destroying everything in their path.and they will succeed in taking away firearm rights. Disgusting.

 

[psyopspec]

It was NOT always unthinkable for a Dem to be pro gun.

Democrats owning guns still is very much a reality — just not in the minds of those on both sides that have given themselves over to tribal politics that seek to acrimoniously divide us from our neighbors and communities.

 

[Punkinhead]

Democrats owning guns still is very much a reality — just not in the minds of those on both sides that have given themselves over to tribal politics that seek to acrimoniously divide us from our neighbors and communities.

Exactly. Politicians in a primary run are catering to the extremes of their parties, not the majority near the center. I know a lot of people who own guns and believe strongly in the 2nd Amendment but vote Democratic because they aren't single issue voters and the Democrats better represent their views on a lot of other issues.

 

[Jeb Stuart]

Democrats owning guns still is very much a reality — just not in the minds of those on both sides that have given themselves over to tribal politics that seek to acrimoniously divide us from our neighbors and communities.

lol,Oh, they own them alright and that is a reality.

 

[psyopspec]

lol,Oh, they own them alright and that is a reality.

What do you mean by that?

 

[AlexanderA]

You are dreaming. The Blue rise of voters in my area will not come close to voting for anything other than Democrat and they are one of the biggest anti 2nd amendment rights advocates out there.

If the gun issue is polarized along Blue-Red lines, we are bound to lose because the Blue side is a growing statistical majority. The only hope for gun rights, long term, is to make inroads among Blue voters. We have to de-polarize the gun issue. All the current anti-Left rhetoric coming from the leadership of the gun community may sound good to the true believers, but long-term it's a losing strategy. All it does is polarize the gun issue more and more.

 

[SharpDog]

If the gun issue is polarized along Blue-Red lines, we are bound to lose because the Blue side is a growing statistical majority. The only hope for gun rights, long term, is to make inroads among Blue voters. We have to de-polarize the gun issue. All the current anti-Left rhetoric coming from the leadership of the gun community may sound good to the true believers, but long-term it's a losing strategy. All it does is polarize the gun issue more and more.

1. Don't vote for those wanting to erode/destroy the 2A

2. Donate your time and money to supoort the RKBA (SAF, NRA, GOA, etc.)

3. Public education, some examples:


Fishing, Hunting, Shooting: MN Bill Would Teach These in School:

The Minnesota senator who authored the bill believes hunting, archery, gun safety, and more would help ‘get children to care about the outdoors.’

https://gearjunkie.com/minnesota-phys-ed-gun-safety-hunting



Kirsten Joy Weiss — Exploring The Fun, Challenge, And Joy Of Shooting

I’m excited to share the positive reality of shooting with you…

http://kirstenjoyweiss.com/



NSSF

To promote, protect and preserve hunting and the shooting sports. Formed in 1961, NSSF has a membership of more than 12,000 manufacturers, distributors, firearms retailers, shooting ranges, sportsmen's organizations and publishers.

https://www.nssf.org/



NRA FIREARM TRAINING:

The NRA is recognized nationally as the gold standard for safe firearm training, developing millions of safe, ethical, responsible shooters and instructors. Whether you're a new gun owner in search of training, or an experienced marksman looking to support others, the NRA has a course for you.

https://firearmtraining.nra.org/

 

[Punkinhead]

The best thing you can do to get people on your side, regardless of party affiliation, is take them to the range. The only was to demystify and remove the fear of guns is to have people shoot them. I've changed a lot of minds over the years.

The NRA has morphed into a GOP only organization over the years which alienates potential allies.