20mm round identification

[Fabio760]

Hi im new here because I needed a definitive answer on a question.

Ok so my friend went out one day walking through the desert when he came upon random spent ammunition and he found a few(actually about 30)20mm rounds and said I could have few. I think wow cool these look cool for a project I had in mind. Upon inspection these didn't look malicious as in explosive or incendiary at least to my basic knowledge. However a couple of people have told me they might be HE of some sort and I think well how could they be just doesnt look like they would be, and after doing some research I found some clues to back my theory but nothing concrete. So for safety's sake I wanted to be 100% sure. They are blue with white numbering/lettering and have a silver tip(others found with these were slightly different in that they were all blue)so my question is are the rounds just training/dummy rounds like I believe or are they potentially explosive, which could be bad Also they seem to be a 2 piece round so can it be taken apart to prove they are non explosive?

Unfortuneatly since my camera is dead this is the best picture I have:

 

[maroast]

Or, they could be depleted uranium.... just saying....

 

[Mp7]

correct me if i´m mistaken:
I believe the NATO colorcode for dummy-rounds
is blue.

 

[Sam1911]

I believe the NATO colorcode for dummy-rounds is blue.

Yeah, I think that's right ... I mean, that's why the UN paints their helmets that color.

Right?

 

[Shung]

it isnt the same blue thought... the UN blue is much lighter..

 

[Sam1911]

it isnt the same blue thought... the UN blue is much lighter

Perhaps...but I think it means the same thing: Inert, Dummy

-Sam

 

[Jubjub]

Blue paint means TP (target practice) which is a solid bullet. The all blue ones are probably M55, the silver tip ones might be PGU-27. Same gun, but the PGU series are a bit higher velocity round. HE rounds would have yellow paint.

 

[Shung]

where do they come from btw ? ground or air based platforms ?

 

[Jorg Nysgerrig]

Also they seem to be a 2 piece round so can it be taken apart to prove they are non explosive?

As a general rule, taking something apart to prove that is non-explosive runs the risk of disproving that hypothesis in a spectacular way.

where do they come from btw ? ground or air based platforms ?

20mm, in the US, is most commonly found on fighter aircraft in the form of the M61. There are helicopter, land, and sea weapons that use it too, but those aren't nearly as common.

 

[Acera]

They could also be out of an Anzio bolt gun. If you look at the picture in the case, you can see some of the rounds. (BTW they are two different guns of the same caliber.) Is this area your are referring to available to the general public? If so check the gun stores and see if any of the folks know of a 20mm shooter in the area. But that many rounds in a small area would be a lot of work for a single civilian shooter, and expensive, buy you never know.
.

 

[jerkface11]

With just the bullet there's really no way to tell what they are from.

 

[Tom488]

As a general rule, taking something apart to prove that is non-explosive runs the risk of disproving that hypothesis in a spectacular way.

 

[Fabio760]

Ok so these are dummy/target practice correct?

Of course taking it apart to prove its not explosive wouldn't be the brightest of ideas but I meant after confirming their not HE or anything and because I need to drill into the backs of these using a press but owner of said press needs proof they're just dummy/inert. If they could be taken apart how would I go about doing so?



Thanks again for the help

 

[Shung]

20mm, in the US, is most commonly found on fighter aircraft in the form of the M61

That I knew well, and it is why I ask

Could you possibly walk around where F-16s, F-15E's or even Navy F/A-18s do some straffing training ?

Maybe a "Cobra" helicopter from the Corps ?

I was more wondering what kind of ground vehicles could use a 20 mike mike in the US..

With just the bullet there's really no way to tell what they are from

no, but the location where they were found could give a clue.

 

[Nate1778]

If they could be taken apart how would I go about doing so?

Whelp I can tell you apparently 3500 ft/sec into sand won't do the trick. Take it to the buddies, put it in a vice, and hit the tip with a hammer. If it makes a "DING" sound, you should be good to go and you end up with a cool project. If it makes a "BOOM" sound, then you win a Darwin award, which is pretty cool in and of itself. Its a win win in my mind.........

 

[Jorg Nysgerrig]

Could you possibly walk around where F-16s, F-15E's or even Navy F/A-18s do some straffing training ?

Possibly? Yes. There are many places in the deserts of California, Nevada, Utah, Arizona and other states where one can find ordinance, either on abandoned ranges or remote live ranges that aren't particularly well protected. It's never a good idea to go around such places looking for souvenirs. Beyond the legal consequences, it's entirely possibly to find UXO which is just a jostle away from becoming losing the U.

I was more wondering what kind of ground vehicles could use a 20 mike mike in the US..

The only ground based versions I know about are the M163, M167, and C-RAM, all of which are used for air defense.

 

[Fabio760]

New pictures, sorry if there big im not sure if this forum auto-resizes

 

[bigalexe]

These look like they could make interesting hood ornaments depending on their length.

 

[chris in va]

It's weird, every single picture I could find on the 'net shows the 20mm round has a much different profile than the ones you found.

 

[Zoogster]

Well they are clearly numbered, and the military would probably have no trouble determining exactly where that batch of ammunition was sent before you found it.
They have some detailed logistical databases and would even know where those were used in training. So if you were someplace you shouldn't have been I wouldn't be posting them.


Also 20mm shooting was much better before the military order to destroy brass earlier in the year.
The civilian firearm community loudly spoke out and all .50 and below brass was removed from required destruction.
Yet calibers above .50, such as 20mm remained, and so the most affordable way to acquire 20mm brass was removed from civilians.

20mm brass still requires the destruction from the policy change that the firearm community was all upset about in March.
The order was only reversed for calibers .50 and below.
As a result the cost of 20mm ammunition is much higher than it was before March.
The cheap source of military brass was removed in March, 2009.


There is a number of 20mm cartridges.
For example most of these are 20mm rounds:

(the tiny 12.7x99 on the left is the .50BMG in metric)
The Lahti rifle which some Americans own for example is chambered in the 20x138B in that picture. Some of the Solothurns use that chambering as well. Both are semi-auto and fed from box magazines. The Solothurns can even be fed from a very large magazine made for flak guns.
Here is a Lahti being fired: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrD_GnkG7dI
The Vulcan 20MM is a much smaller chambering. A 20mmX102mm


It really just depends what picture you look at though. In this picture the 20x138B lahti round looks like a wimp:

Here is a Vulcan profile:

 

[Owen]

measure the length of the case. I can't see the photos here at work, so...

If it is 102 mm long, it it for the vulcan. If it is 110 mm, it is the Hispano cartridge. If its 87mm, its the german cartridge.

The 20x102 is mainly electric primed. The 110 and the 87 are usually percussion primed.

I believe all of these cartridges are considered destructive devices, so you owe a $200 tax on each one. If you haven't paid the tax, the right thing to do is to call you local EOD squad and turn them in.

The Navy used the 20x110 cartridge into the 90s for antiaircraft roles.

Blue is not inert, it just means that the projectile has no energetic materials (explosives or incendiaries) in it. There is enough propellent in any of these to ruin your day.

 

[Jorg Nysgerrig]

measure the length of the case. I can't see the photos here at work, so...

He only has projectiles, not the entire cartridge.

Blue is not inert, it just means that the projectile has no energetic materials (explosives or incendiaries) in it. There is enough propellent in any of these to ruin your day.

Since you can't see the pictures, this statement seems rather out of context.

 

[Owen]

aha!

 

[Sam1911]

Why would a cartridge of non-explosive ammo be considered a DD? The large bore RIFLE might be considered a Destructive Device, but not the round itself. (Especially a solid-projectile training round.)

Besides, from what I've seen, they found the projectiles themselves, not the entire cartridge.

-Sam

 

[Tom488]

Edit: nevermind.... too slow